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My Anniversary Pass
- Thread starter Tenpin
- Start date
The prices are close, but still off ($8.75 vs. $10.00) but rarity is another issue. It's Tenpins pass, so if he is fine with it, then I am as well.
Are you talking about my put for the Shark?
CoventryCat86
Corresponding authority
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2003
- Messages
- 12,606
Do you know where you got them from?
Who elected you the Minister of Closing Matters here? ??? The fact is YOU come in here with your smart mouth crap about the matter "already being discussed" when in fact it had not.
Now that you mention it, I have considerable concerns with your attitude so you'd be wise to drop your "attitude" ASAP.
The Añejo 49 is worth more than the Añejo 77 so no one should have a problem with that. The rarity factor for each is the same. If anything, it's easier to get 77s than 49s.
CoventryCat86
Corresponding authority
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2003
- Messages
- 12,606
Folks, no need for the name calling here....
What goes on in this pass eventually affects everyone, in one way or another. So, anyone has the right to ask questions here.
LOL! :laugh: Well, much to the chagrin of the Minister of Closing Matters, aka seadbu, the "matter" is still open. I think alex should tell us where he got the cigars from.
I would have questioned it as well, but Seamus also made the following puts:
R&J EL 2004 replaced with Partagas SD3 EL 2001
Cohiba Robusto 03 replaced with Cohiba Robusto 2004
Cohiba Siglo IV Replaced with Punch SS2 2001
Also adding a Hemingway Classic Maduro
These are 4 sticks he did not receive anything for, so, even though the pass is "One for One", I consider the Shark for the 49 and the above sticks more than fair.
Seamus also added quite a bit of value by questioning the authenticity of some ISOMs and asked for Moki's assistance. He could have just ignored all of this and made a couple of P/Ts and sent it along.
All in all, Seamus has Put quite a bit more than he has Taken.
I'm quite satisfied.
Jim
Folks, no need for the name calling here....
What goes on in this pass eventually affects everyone, in one way or another. So, anyone has the right to ask questions here.
LOL! :laugh: Well, much to the chagrin of the Minister of Closing Matters, aka seadbu, the "matter" is still open. I think alex should tell us where he got the cigars from.
Alex has already posted that he does not know the origin of these sticks. If anyone wants more info, there is a long thread on another board discussing these. I will PM the link to all who PM me with a request for this.
Jim
CoventryCat86
Corresponding authority
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2003
- Messages
- 12,606
Just curious as to why you
The MSRP of a 49 is more than a 77 and 77s are easier to get than 49s.
Am I missing something? ???
The main thing that made both Seamus and I suspicious is that the Siglo IV that was put is impossibly sized. It's a thinner ring gauge than the Cohiba Robustos, but yet is 1/8" shorter. That makes it approximately the ring of a Siglo II, but it is 1/4" shorter than a Siglo II. That's pretty odd.
Combine that with the way the wrapper looks, and the band defect, and you have to wonder what the odds of all 3 of these things coming together in a legitimate flagship cigar like a Cohiba would be.
And since the same band defect is present on the Cohiba Robusto as well as the Siglo ?? that was put, it needs to be suspect too, since they are pretty clearly from the same source or at least the same production/print run. I can't know for sure until I have them here and can smell/smoke them, but certainly it's enough to pull them from the pass.
Everything was handled well by all parties involved; the cigars were pulled, the pass can move on, and my grand plot to get free Cubans... erm... I mean... and I'll determine the pedigree of these cigars when they arrive.
You are the last person I'd expect to be mooching free Cubans! What are you doing, trying to compete with MRN???
Jim
The only thing you are missing is my ignorance.
I did not realize the 49's were rare. Everyone always seems to drool over the prospect of a Shark.
Jim
CoventryCat86
Corresponding authority
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2003
- Messages
- 12,606
Okay here's what he said:
I took that to mean he did not buy them himself from a known source but that doesn't (at least in my mind) answer the question as to where he got them from. Did he pull them from a pass? Did someone gift them to him? Or does he really have "no idea" where they came from (because he just plain didn't keep track)?
The lesson that should be learned from this is that you should KNOW THE ORIGIN of cigars you put in passes or trade or sell to people because if it's determined that they're fakes then we damn better know where they came from.
Here's an experience I had that I'll share with the audience. When I first started participating in passes, I would store my takes in my humi. I could pretty much remember where they came from but as my cigar inventory grew, it was harder and harder. One day I lit up a Cohiba Robusto that damn near killed me. It was as fake as the day is long BUT it had been in my humi for so long that I had no idea where I got it from. From that point on, I keep a record of where each of my cigars came from. A few months later, I lit up a PSD4 that made me sick to my stomach. So this time, I looked up where I had gotten it from. Sure enough, I pulled it from a pass on CigarWeakly. I PM'd the guy and said "Hey, you probably don't know this but the PSD you put in the XXX pass was a fake. I honestly don't even care so please don't feel you need to make good on this but I just wanted to know where you got this from so I can avoid this source in the future." So the guys responds "Duh, no, I have no idea where it came from...."
THIS IS WHY I will never participate in a pass over on CigarWeakly and I would like to NOT see this board dragged down to the same level.
Matter still "open" Minister
:laugh: Okay, I see now. Now I'm not trying to say that my position is the be all, end all BUT I think the general consensus is that all Añejos are "hard to get" and no one certain vitola more than any other in the line.
This of course can be a topic for a lengthy discussion elsewhere because in my particular case, I can get 77s anytime but I can't find 49s as easily. This may be completely opposite the case in other parts of the country.
NorCalCigarLover
The Wine Guy
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2004
- Messages
- 5,898
Okay here's what he said:
I took that to mean he did not buy them himself from a known source but that doesn't (at least in my mind) answer the question as to where he got them from. Did he pull them from a pass? Did someone gift them to him? Or does he really have "no idea" where they came from (because he just plain didn't keep track)?
The lesson that should be learned from this is that you should KNOW THE ORIGIN of cigars you put in passes or trade or sell to people because if it's determined that they're fakes then we damn better know where they came from.
Here's an experience I had that I'll share with the audience. When I first started participating in passes, I would store my takes in my humi. I could pretty much remember where they came from but as my cigar inventory grew, it was harder and harder. One day I lit up a Cohiba Robusto that damn near killed me. It was as fake as the day is long BUT it had been in my humi for so long that I had no idea where I got it from. From that point on, I keep a record of where each of my cigars came from. A few months later, I lit up a PSD4 that made me sick to my stomach. So this time, I looked up where I had gotten it from. Sure enough, I pulled it from a pass on CigarWeakly. I PM'd the guy and said "Hey, you probably don't know this but the PSD you put in the XXX pass was a fake. I honestly don't even care so please don't feel you need to make good on this but I just wanted to know where you got this from so I can avoid this source in the future." So the guys responds "Duh, no, I have no idea where it came from...."
THIS IS WHY I will never participate in a pass over on CigarWeakly and I would like to NOT see this board dragged down to the same level.
Matter still "open" Minister
Okay, I see now. Now I'm not trying to say that my position is the be all, end all BUT I think the general consensus is that all Añejos are "hard to get" and no one certain vitola more than any other in the line.
This of course can be a topic for a lengthy discussion elsewhere because in my particular case, I can get 77s anytime but I can't find 49s as easily. This may be completely opposite the case in other parts of the country.
CC, I completely agree with you on this matter.
I am guilty of using sticks I would never have put in a pass due to not remembering where they came from.
I made the mistake of not using my own sticks that have been bought from "trusted" places. I wanted to move the pass out as fast as I could and used what I had in the work Humi. I should of waited and used sticks from the coolers I keep at home. The top row of my work humi I stock with sticks I am going to smoke that week while at work or coming home from work. In the bottom shelf I keep cigars I pull from passes or cigars bombed to me from anonymous sources. Since I dont know the origins of these cigars I dont like to mix them with my sticks. TO avoid what just happened here. But this is what i get for not following my own guidelines.
For this I apologize to the members of the pass and to the members of cigarpass.
I agree and I have added this info to the "How To Join A Pass" thread, as it had not been mentioned.
Jim
The lesson that should be learned from this is that you should KNOW THE ORIGIN of cigars you put in passes or trade or sell to people because if it's determined that they're fakes then we damn better know where they came from.
Here's an experience I had that I'll share with the audience. When I first started participating in passes, I would store my takes in my humi. I could pretty much remember where they came from but as my cigar inventory grew, it was harder and harder. One day I lit up a Cohiba Robusto that damn near killed me. It was as fake as the day is long BUT it had been in my humi for so long that I had no idea where I got it from. From that point on, I keep a record of where each of my cigars came from. A few months later, I lit up a PSD4 that made me sick to my stomach. So this time, I looked up where I had gotten it from. Sure enough, I pulled it from a pass on CigarWeakly. I PM'd the guy and said "Hey, you probably don't know this but the PSD you put in the XXX pass was a fake. I honestly don't even care so please don't feel you need to make good on this but I just wanted to know where you got this from so I can avoid this source in the future." So the guys responds "Duh, no, I have no idea where it came from...."
THIS IS WHY I will never participate in a pass over on CigarWeakly and I would like to NOT see this board dragged down to the same level.
Matter still "open" Minister
I definately agree Bill. If you are going to put ISOMs in a pass, you need to be accountable and more than willing to share the source of them. I, personally, would never throw anything into a pass unless I received the stick from a reputable vendor.
However....
Who elected you the Minister of Closing Matters here? ??? The fact is YOU come in here with your smart mouth crap about the matter "already being discussed" when in fact it had not.
Now that you mention it, I have considerable concerns with your attitude so you'd be wise to drop your "attitude" ASAP.
and
"aka seadbu" are out of line.
While you make valid points regarding "knowing your source", I think this quote shows that the manner inwhich you address Seamus is unacceptable. Resorting to name-calling and talking down to your peers is petty. This is how rational and necessary conversations escalate into flame-wars.
Seamus (and Moki) went to lengths to make sure this was topic (Fake ISOMs) was discussed in a professional manner. It was done in PM to avoid dragging anyone through the mud while the sticks were still under consideration. Once a definate answer regarding their authenticity is found, I would hope Alex would address the issue.
Patrick
moki
el Presidente
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2003
- Messages
- 9,418
For what it's worth, were it not for Seamus's diligence, the fakes would still be in the pass, and someone would have likely unwittingly grabbed them. He did a good thing.
Añejo No.49s are a bit more expensive than Añejo Sharks, but both are about the same in terms of rarity... CC is right, it depends on where you are in the country in terms of what's available it seems. It's not my pass, but my view is that Seamus put far more than he took (after the additional sticks are counted), and did the pass a favor by eliminating these fakes, so I'd be more than good with him.
Tenpin seemed to appreciate it too, and everyone hopefully learned something. The only takes I'd question would be these only because the Casa Fuente's MSRP is double that of the Añejo Shark, and I don't see anything else that's similar in value. The aged Super Corona put/take for an Esplendido is also something I'd wonder about... sure, they are discontinued, and the cigar is aged but... it's a freakin' Esplendido
In any event, the final judgement is up to the person who is running the pass. If he's good with it, then everyone else should be too, assuming he's aware of the value discrepancies, etc. If he's not, then he should appreciate that other people here make him aware of the situation.
It's really a bit difficult; if people take too much, and put too little, foul is legitimately cried. If people take too little, and put too much, the pass host is accused of profiteering.
The way I look at it, most properly run passes will even out in the end... some people will put a little bit more than they take, others will take a little bit more than they put, but it should generally be about even when the pass is done. The only thing that concerns me is when someone repeatedly takes more than they put... that's a pattern of behavior that I find unacceptable.
I'm not saying that's the case with anyone where, just a general comment... and this is all, of course, just my opinion. Others may disagree.
Okay folks, let's hold hands... sing it with me...
Kumbaya my lord, kumbaya
Kumbaya my lord, kumbaya
Kumbaya my lord, kumbaya
Oh lord, kumbaya
Añejo No.49s are a bit more expensive than Añejo Sharks, but both are about the same in terms of rarity... CC is right, it depends on where you are in the country in terms of what's available it seems. It's not my pass, but my view is that Seamus put far more than he took (after the additional sticks are counted), and did the pass a favor by eliminating these fakes, so I'd be more than good with him.
Tenpin seemed to appreciate it too, and everyone hopefully learned something. The only takes I'd question would be these only because the Casa Fuente's MSRP is double that of the Añejo Shark, and I don't see anything else that's similar in value. The aged Super Corona put/take for an Esplendido is also something I'd wonder about... sure, they are discontinued, and the cigar is aged but... it's a freakin' Esplendido
In any event, the final judgement is up to the person who is running the pass. If he's good with it, then everyone else should be too, assuming he's aware of the value discrepancies, etc. If he's not, then he should appreciate that other people here make him aware of the situation.
It's really a bit difficult; if people take too much, and put too little, foul is legitimately cried. If people take too little, and put too much, the pass host is accused of profiteering.
The way I look at it, most properly run passes will even out in the end... some people will put a little bit more than they take, others will take a little bit more than they put, but it should generally be about even when the pass is done. The only thing that concerns me is when someone repeatedly takes more than they put... that's a pattern of behavior that I find unacceptable.
I'm not saying that's the case with anyone where, just a general comment... and this is all, of course, just my opinion. Others may disagree.
Okay folks, let's hold hands... sing it with me...
Kumbaya my lord, kumbaya
Kumbaya my lord, kumbaya
Kumbaya my lord, kumbaya
Oh lord, kumbaya
CoventryCat86
Corresponding authority
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2003
- Messages
- 12,606
However....
Who elected you the Minister of Closing Matters here? ??? The fact is YOU come in here with your smart mouth crap about the matter "already being discussed" when in fact it had not.
Now that you mention it, I have considerable concerns with your attitude so you'd be wise to drop your "attitude" ASAP.
and
"aka seadbu" are out of line.
While you make valid points regarding "knowing your source", I think this quote shows that the manner inwhich you address Seamus is unacceptable. Resorting to name-calling and talking down to your peers is petty. This is how rational and necessary conversations escalate into flame-wars.
Seamus (and Moki) went to lengths to make sure this was topic (Fake ISOMs) was discussed in a professional manner. It was done in PM to avoid dragging anyone through the mud while the sticks were still under consideration. Once a definate answer regarding their authenticity is found, I would hope Alex would address the issue.
Patrick
How is a typo "out of line" ??? I made a typo, I'm not perfect and never claimed to be. You are out of line for saying that.......
Oh and where do you see "name calling"? He was disrespectful and wrong by claiming the matter was closed. Do you find the comment he made to me acceptable or unacceptable? My guess is that you can't be objective when it comes to drawing conclusions regarding my posts here. While you may find my crack "unacceptable" you're in the minority on this one.
