Medical Cannabis

[MadMonk]

yeah, just under 6 billion for Alcohol tax revenue, but I suspect it is more than that. I never believe government statistics. The amounts of our money that our government wastes is atrocious.
Tobacco is next, because the pharmaceutical industry is developing a lot of "drugs" from nicotine. They warn you not to use certain items with their nicotine products because then it would enhance certain positive attributes of nicotine. This is another scam. Losing our freedoms so an industry can monopolize is happening at a faster and faster rate than ever before.
The idea to never let a crisis go to waste has reached an all time high, and you will see more and more crisis with government devising solutions which take away your freedoms and your money.

 

[Nimrod]

 

[sar127]

Tons of great points:

I don't believe its the governments responsibility to provide health care or rehabilitation. When I say government, by the way, I mean all of us because it is our tax dollars we speak of.

I have to respectfully disagree here. I'm sure we all agree that basic needs like fire, police, etc is acceptable terrain for taxation and is not part of this discussion. But u say health and rehab aren't, right? Is it ok to classify those two with other uses of taxes like parks and rec, schools, library, arts, etc.? In that case this becomes a larger discussion of economic philosophy altogether.

I imagine the same would apply to marijuana.

Not that I condone it, but I've never heard of a someone plowing his car into a family of four while high, or going home and beating the piss out of his wife and kids.

So, that removes the whole hidden cost concern for the most part. Our court and prison systems would actually see some relief with all of the possession and distribution charges becoming a thing of the past.

I'm not convinced that driving high is completely safe, but u have a point there with the wife beater example. Also, the relief on the court system is something I overlooked as well. You guys may be slowly changing my mind here...haha.

Losing our freedoms so an industry can monopolize is happening at a faster and faster rate than ever before.
The idea to never let a crisis go to waste has reached an all time high, and you will see more and more crisis with government devising solutions which take away your freedoms and your money.

I can't agree more with the industry monopoly point, but I'm not a libertarian so I have reservations about your govt taking freedoms point. For one, I would love it if you could expand. And two, I argue that monopolized industries take away as many freedoms if not more from the public, being that the definitions of monopoly is in itself the removal of competing choices.

Friedman video

Looking forward to watching this soon

 

[wkoti]

Welcome back BoTL, been a little while it appears, glad to see you around again.

But this may be a touchy or controversial subject ???

Aspire to be FOG, eh? Well you fail. :laugh:

Doc

Nope, it's just um, a highly controversial conversation.

Not politics or Religion, so it's fair game.

I guess that is where the written meaning versus interpretation discussion could begin, but I surely hope it doesn't, so it doesn't take away from the original subject matter. When I read the rules, and have reread them many times, I always understood the "touchy" subject rule as, no discussion of potentially tension filled topics, including, but not limited to religion and politics. This I believe could very easily turn into a heated topic, it hasn't which I'm glad, but it definitely has the structural foundation for it.

Don't get me wrong, I raised in a good home, where I never had to wonder where the couch and television went when my folks pawned it, because they didn't have the cash to support their addictions, and I positively have no personal quandaries against the medical uses for controlled substances to better a individuals health. But that being said I was also raised in the age of D.A.R.E. where there were many many heated discussions I sat through, that I was merely trying to avoid happening here.

My mistake here is underestimating you group of fellas and before I wrote that statement, I hadn't completely processed where I was writing it. You folks are a group respectable, decent, intelligent adults who can and do abstain from mud slinging, and slandering, who can tactfully and intelligently state your opinions delicately, avoiding tension amongst the community. The topic merely threw me back to my younger years, where this topic started verbal fights and sometimes physical confrontation. For this I apologize sincerely.

Welcome back BoTL, been a little while it appears, glad to see you around again.

But this may be a touchy or controversial subject ???

Aspire to be FOG, eh? Well you fail. :laugh:

Doc

Nothing against you WKOTI, but it does seem like you're trying to climb the ladder fairly quickly. Banging on the 2 year door gains you knowledge and a certain amount of respect, 5 plus years gains you respect (for the most part) and the title of "prick"! LOL

I am really not trying to gain any prestige here, nor make a name for myself. I honestly just want to give back what I have gotten, which is much harder than it sounds. I'm not seeking any titles here, just wanting to do my part to better the community. This is a place I call home, I'm a member of other cigar boards, but this is the only place I will defend publicly. This place is filled with friends and family, and I merely wish to succeed at is keeping the brotherhood alive.

I know there are some here that have been around 5-10 years who not many know, there are also some who've been around under 5 years and have multiple thousands of posts and are well known and mostly respected. I would love to be somewhere in the middle, but only time will tell. We all chose my own path, whether we realize it or not sometimes. So if I've over stepped my boundaries I apologize and will be more conscious of my posts next time around.

WKOTI

 

[The Black Cloud]

Legalize it. Nuff said.

 

[Petthefish]

My biggest concern is people say its for medical and yes there are a ton of people that need it but there are also a ton of people that are not sick charring a medical card. Why lie just legalize it tax it and then move on. Cause I'm sorry Medical cannabis will never take hold as long as people are taking advantage of the system.

Just to ad a note to people that say it does not kill I will tell you this my father was stoned one night drove to the store and ran off the road killing a 23 year single mother. So yes it can kill I say we treat it like alcohol. rp

 

[cac]

It's basically cheaper than tobacco here, and a lot easier to find than trying to find a decent B&M.
Go figure???

It will never be completely legal as big pharm and the FDA will see to that.

 

[The Black Cloud]

My biggest concern is people say its for medical and yes there are a ton of people that need it but there are also a ton of people that are not sick charring a medical card. Why lie just legalize it tax it and then move on. Cause I'm sorry Medical cannabis will never take hold as long as people are taking advantage of the system.

Just to ad a note to people that say it does not kill I will tell you this my father was stoned one night drove to the store and ran off the road killing a 23 year single mother. So yes it can kill I say we treat it like alcohol. rp

I'm pretty sure that's what most of us advocate. Treat it like the other substances that are perfectly legal. I assume when people say pot doesn't kill, they are referring to what it does to the body, NOT the consequences of smoking and doing something stupid (i.e. driving while stoned).

 

[JTuttle]

In the 1930s, innovations in farm machinery would have caused an industrial revolution when applied to hemp. This single resource could have created millions of new jobs generating thousands of quality products. Hemp, if not made illegal, would have brought America out of the Great Depression.
William Randolph Hearst (Citizen Kane) and the Hearst Paper Manufacturing Division of Kimberly Clark owned vast acreage of timberlands. The Hearst Company supplied most paper products. Patty Hearst's grandfather, a destroyer of nature for his own personal profit, stood to lose billions because of hemp.
In 1937, Dupont patented the processes to make plastics from oil and coal. Dupont's Annual Report urged stockholders to invest in its new petrochemical division. Synthetics such as plastics, cellophane, celluloid, methanol, nylon, rayon, Dacron, etc., could now be made from oil. Natural hemp industrialization would have ruined over 80% of Dupont's business.
Andrew Mellon became Hoover's Secretary of the Treasury and Dupont's primary investor. He appointed his future nephew-in-law, Harry J. Anslinger, to head the Federal Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs.
Theres always a reason for why that usually isnt the public spoke reason why the govt does what they do.
I can see no good reason to not legalize it beyond its effect on many big Corps.

 

[Rod]

From an Independent who leans towards the right (conservative), I say legalize it and let the states tax the sh*t out of it. I'm not into it, but those who are will by it legally, and I'm sure pot lounges would pop up all over the place. Think of the revenue the states would make!

It's no worse than tobacco or alcohol, especially alcohol. I never heard of anyone getting high off pot and starting a fight.

Regulate it and tax it! This war on drugs is so screwed up. The other crap like crack, coke, etc, keep all that banned and get the addicts help instead of just putting them behind bars for a few weeks. Will be more effective and cost effective in the long run.

 

[Jonesy]

Welcome back BoTL, been a little while it appears, glad to see you around again.

But this may be a touchy or controversial subject ???

Aspire to be FOG, eh? Well you fail. :laugh:

Doc

Nope, it's just um, a highly controversial conversation.

Not politics or Religion, so it's fair game.

I guess that is where the written meaning versus interpretation discussion could begin, but I surely hope it doesn't, so it doesn't take away from the original subject matter. When I read the rules, and have reread them many times, I always understood the "touchy" subject rule as, no discussion of potentially tension filled topics, including, but not limited to religion and politics. This I believe could very easily turn into a heated topic, it hasn't which I'm glad, but it definitely has the structural foundation for it.

Don't get me wrong, I raised in a good home, where I never had to wonder where the couch and television went when my folks pawned it, because they didn't have the cash to support their addictions, and I positively have no personal quandaries against the medical uses for controlled substances to better a individuals health. But that being said I was also raised in the age of D.A.R.E. where there were many many heated discussions I sat through, that I was merely trying to avoid happening here.

My mistake here is underestimating you group of fellas and before I wrote that statement, I hadn't completely processed where I was writing it. You folks are a group respectable, decent, intelligent adults who can and do abstain from mud slinging, and slandering, who can tactfully and intelligently state your opinions delicately, avoiding tension amongst the community. The topic merely threw me back to my younger years, where this topic started verbal fights and sometimes physical confrontation. For this I apologize sincerely.

Welcome back BoTL, been a little while it appears, glad to see you around again.

But this may be a touchy or controversial subject ???

Aspire to be FOG, eh? Well you fail. :laugh:

Doc

Nothing against you WKOTI, but it does seem like you're trying to climb the ladder fairly quickly. Banging on the 2 year door gains you knowledge and a certain amount of respect, 5 plus years gains you respect (for the most part) and the title of "prick"! LOL

I am really not trying to gain any prestige here, nor make a name for myself. I honestly just want to give back what I have gotten, which is much harder than it sounds. I'm not seeking any titles here, just wanting to do my part to better the community. This is a place I call home, I'm a member of other cigar boards, but this is the only place I will defend publicly. This place is filled with friends and family, and I merely wish to succeed at is keeping the brotherhood alive.

I know there are some here that have been around 5-10 years who not many know, there are also some who've been around under 5 years and have multiple thousands of posts and are well known and mostly respected. I would love to be somewhere in the middle, but only time will tell. We all chose my own path, whether we realize it or not sometimes. So if I've over stepped my boundaries I apologize and will be more conscious of my posts next time around.

WKOTI

I'm not trying to get on your case by any stretch. It's just that it's been gone over multitudes of times that religion and politics are taboo. I apologize for the tenure comment I made in my post. You can be here 10 years or 1 year and be just as respected. Sometimes you notice guys that try hard to do the right thing, offer opinions, correct people, so on, so forth, just to gain standing amongst the group. You've never done anything to apologize for (unlike me) so keep doing what you're doing and realize that every now and again, someone WILL disagree with you!

 

[wkoti]

Thank you Jonesy, it was constructive criticism and a expansion of knowledge. Life isn't about being always right, it's about doing the right thing, and sometimes that's admitting fault! :thumbs:

No hard feelings, you're alright in my book

WKOTI

 

[gaspagoo]

Allot of people make the argument that pot is a gateway drug. I don't buy that. Many drug dealers sell other drugs too. It's not that hard too get coke, x, meth, whatever else from the same guy you're buying buds from. I experienced this first hand some years back when I sowed many wild oats. The weed man realized he could make more money selling something in much smaller quantities (cocaine), and I become a pretty good customer. By the grace of God, I'm a very different person today. All in all, I say legalize it only. Regulate it, tax it, and people who want to buy only it can get it somewhere that doesn't have
other drugs that can ruin ones life.

 

[Allofus123]

So is there gonna be a GB or not?

 

[Jonesy]

So is there gonna be a GB or not?

You facilitating the buy Kenny?

 

[wkoti]

Where are the Canadians when you need them?

 

[tsmckenney]

It's basically cheaper than tobacco here, and a lot easier to find than trying to find a decent B&M.
Go figure???

It will never be completely legal as big pharm and the FDA will see to that.

You're first point is funny, and I believe you.

I used to agree with your second point, but not so much anymore. There's a lot going on with the issue of legalization right now. Far more than I can ever remember. You have a respected former United States Attorney (WA) aggressively pushing for legalization based largely on the amount of money that Americans put into the Mexican cartel's pockets. You have largely conservative states pushing for legalization... You have the War on Drugs which every living American considers a complete failure, and more Americans believing that money spent on treatment and prevention is better spent than locking up street dealers.

Anyway, I'm all for it, and more and more people seem to agree on this issue. I would actually struggle to name a person who is against it. Marijuana, that is. I can't say I agree that legalizing meth is the right thing to do...

 

[broblues]

I would open a plantation between a Miller lite Brewery and a Taco Bell. :laugh: Heck yes, legalize it!

 

[thechenman]

I say legalize it. Smoke what you like, like what you smoke, right? But seriously...I think states would be better off legalizing it, whether it be for medical, or "quasi-medical" purposes. The financial benefits to some states could be material provided the system is structured, regulated, monitored and taxed properly. Sure...that may be asking a lot of our government officials/agencies, but given the condition of their balance sheets...it could help. As mentioned earlier, I don't see marijuana being any worse than alcohol...so why not?

 

[thechenman]

Oliver Stone weighs in on weed and Savages

http://movies.msn.com/movies/article.aspx?news=741129