Just how bad was 1999-2001?

[amateuraficionado]

I've always heard that there were certain years in which cc's with many undesirable characteristics were produced and truthfully never gave it much thought until recently. Some research has yielded that 1999-2001 were apparently bad years for the q.c. of cc's. So my question is, based on your experiences, just how pervasive are the issues with cigars produced during these years as opposed to others? Have you found specific marcas, vitolas, ring gauges etc., to be more problematic than others? Any input would be greatly appreciated.

 

[grateful1]

It's a mixed bag. Some stuff GREAT....some ok...most ehhh.

You have to understand the transition period that they were going thru. Not only seed changes...but poor growing seasons effected the crops.

Not to mention poor oversite and managment in the rolling rooms.

Do a goodle and you'll find out more.

 

[Fatken]

It's a mixed bag. Some stuff GREAT....some ok...most ehhh.

You have to understand the transition period that they were going thru. Not only seed changes...but poor growing seasons effected the crops.

Not to mention poor oversite and managment in the rolling rooms.

Do a goodle and you'll find out more.

I think you can get arrested for that! :sign:

 

[amateuraficionado]

Do a goodle and you'll find out more.

I think you can get arrested for that! :sign:

I though that was only if your municipality rhymed with oodle....

 

[amateuraficionado]

It's a mixed bag. Some stuff GREAT....some ok...most ehhh.

You have to understand the transition period that they were going thru. Not only seed changes...but poor growing seasons effected the crops.

Not to mention poor oversite and managment in the rolling rooms.

Do a goodle and you'll find out more.

Thanks Gary. I've somewhat familiarized myself with some of the key issues and I still have to do some more digging. But I was more curious as to the direct result of the issues. For instance, from your experiences, do cigars produced during this time have a significantly increased propensity for burn issues, draw issues or plugging? Is it reasonable to expect half of the cigars from any box produced during these years to be plugged? Or are the instances of problems only slightly higher than those of cigars produced during other years?

 

[BlindedByScience]

I had cabs of Boli PC's and SLR A's from '01. No plugs, and they smoked like champs.

YMMV.....B.B.S.

 

[grateful1]

It's a mixed bag. Some stuff GREAT....some ok...most ehhh.

You have to understand the transition period that they were going thru. Not only seed changes...but poor growing seasons effected the crops.

Not to mention poor oversite and managment in the rolling rooms.

Do a goodle and you'll find out more.

Thanks Gary. I've somewhat familiarized myself with some of the key issues and I still have to do some more digging. But I was more curious as to the direct result of the issues. For instance, from your experiences, do cigars produced during this time have a significantly increased propensity for burn issues, draw issues or plugging? Is it reasonable to expect half of the cigars from any box produced during these years to be plugged? Or are the instances of problems only slightly higher than those of cigars produced during other years?

Yes.
No.
Depends on the rolling house.

Now - as of 05-06? - they are testing the smokes for quality, better than ever. However, there are some boxes that just have 'tight' cigars. I havn't had a bad Ingenios(yet) out of 3-4 boxes. I give one to Rob yesterday and his is realllllly tight! Go figure.

 

[tone-ny]

Link

 

[cigar smoke]

It was not only the construction problems that was evident (plugged and burn issues due to poor rolling) for the 1999-2001 time period it, was also the blending of tobacco and quality of that tobacco. In order to meet the increased production that was man dated by Habanos, they began planting and cultivating tobacco in places that were not great. Hence yielding raw tabacco. Also to make matters worse there was a shortage of ligero leave which adds greatly to the strenght and robust flavor of the cigars. Because of this many brands begain to lose there characteristic flavors that defines each one. IMO the 2001s begain improving. In 1999 and 2000 the ash from these cigars were almost black which IMO is an indicator of poor tobacco quality. 2001s were much better.

Bob

 

[grateful1]

It was not only the construction problems that was evident (plugged and burn issues due to poor rolling) for the 1999-2001 time period it, was also the blending of tobacco and quality of that tobacco. In order to meet the increased production that was man dated by Habanos, they began planting and cultivating tobacco in places that were not great. Hence yielding raw tabacco. Also to make matters worse there was a shortage of ligero leave which adds greatly to the strenght and robust flavor of the cigars. Because of this many brands begain to lose there characteristic flavors that defines each one. IMO the 2001s begain improving. In 1999 and 2000 the ash from these cigars were almost black which IMO is an indicator of poor tobacco quality. 2001s were much better.

Bob

That's an interesting observation.

I've had a few from the period with a nice deep (black) ash - is that perverted or what....and they smoked wonderfully.

Hmmm.

 

[tkoepp]

So what does a clean powder-white ash contribute to a cigar’s quality? “Other than aesthetics, absolutely nothing,” is the blunt answer from Bahia Cigar’s Tony Borhani. “It means the soil has lots of phosphorus and calcium. The soil that produces Sumatra tobacco will always give a white ash. Cuban soil is low in calcium and that’s how they maintain it, so Cuban cigars’ ashes are hardly ever white.”

Quesada adds magnesium to the list of minerals that could influence an ash’s color, and believes that a range of gray ashes indicates healthier tobacco. “The traditional criteria in the industry are that extremes are never the rule,” he states. “Too white or too black is not as desirable as a range of grays.” Magnesium, while it may have an effect on how sweet a tobacco tastes, can also cause the ash to become flaky if there is too much of it in the soil.

 

[cigar smoke]

So what does a clean powder-white ash contribute to a cigar’s quality? “Other than aesthetics, absolutely nothing,” is the blunt answer from Bahia Cigar’s Tony Borhani. “It means the soil has lots of phosphorus and calcium. The soil that produces Sumatra tobacco will always give a white ash. Cuban soil is low in calcium and that’s how they maintain it, so Cuban cigars’ ashes are hardly ever white.”

Quesada adds magnesium to the list of minerals that could influence an ash’s color, and believes that a range of gray ashes indicates healthier tobacco. “The traditional criteria in the industry are that extremes are never the rule,” he states. “Too white or too black is not as desirable as a range of grays.” Magnesium, while it may have an effect on how sweet a tobacco tastes, can also cause the ash to become flaky if there is too much of it in the soil.

This issue has been debated many times on either side by many tobacco experts. It is only my opinon that a cigar with a black ash(not gray) does not burn as clean resulting in poorer quality flavor. You may also find that black ash cigars have a burn issues as well.

Bob

 

[grateful1]

So what does a clean powder-white ash contribute to a cigar's quality? "Other than aesthetics, absolutely nothing," is the blunt answer from Bahia Cigar's Tony Borhani. "It means the soil has lots of phosphorus and calcium. The soil that produces Sumatra tobacco will always give a white ash. Cuban soil is low in calcium and that's how they maintain it, so Cuban cigars' ashes are hardly ever white."

Quesada adds magnesium to the list of minerals that could influence an ash's color, and believes that a range of gray ashes indicates healthier tobacco. "The traditional criteria in the industry are that extremes are never the rule," he states. "Too white or too black is not as desirable as a range of grays." Magnesium, while it may have an effect on how sweet a tobacco tastes, can also cause the ash to become flaky if there is too much of it in the soil.

'Heatlhier' does not equal 'tastier'!

:laugh:

 

[Mike33]

One of the big problems from this time along with construction issues was Cuba using a lot of under-fermented tobacco. As was already mentioned, production was practically tripled from '97 to late '98 and beyond. Cuba could not meet the goal of exports and rushed cigars out before they were ready. This led to terrible cigars when they were fresh and many people stopped buying cigars from those years and still don't buy from those years. Because of that, vendors were left with an enormous amount of stock that has been aging and maturing over the last 7-9 years.

Concerning buying cigars from the 99-01 time period, it can be hit and miss. However, there are some amazing bargains to be had if you know what to look for. Small-production cigars in the lesser known marcas do not suffer near the construction problems of other marcas that are widely exported. It also helps to know the factories and which ones to avoid buying from.

I have bought many boxes from the 99-01 period recently and have been pleased with all of them. Many of them are available for the same price as new stock. There are a lot of people who won't buy cigars from this period and I can understand that. That just means more for me

 

[Kingantz]

One of the big problems from this time along with construction issues was Cuba using a lot of under-fermented tobacco. As was already mentioned, production was practically tripled from '97 to late '98 and beyond. Cuba could not meet the goal of exports and rushed cigars out before they were ready. This led to terrible cigars when they were fresh and many people stopped buying cigars from those years and still don't buy from those years. Because of that, vendors were left with an enormous amount of stock that has been aging and maturing over the last 7-9 years.

Concerning buying cigars from the 99-01 time period, it can be hit and miss. However, there are some amazing bargains to be had if you know what to look for. Small-production cigars in the lesser known marcas do not suffer near the construction problems of other marcas that are widely exported. It also helps to know the factories and which ones to avoid buying from.

I have bought many boxes from the 99-01 period recently and have been pleased with all of them. Many of them are available for the same price as new stock. There are a lot of people who won't buy cigars from this period and I can understand that. That just means more for me

AUMEN!!

 

[amateuraficionado]

Many of them are available for the same price as new stock. There are a lot of people who won't buy cigars from this period and I can understand that. That just means more for me

Thanks for the input guys..... very much appreciated! Keep it coming, please. To the threadjackers... knock it off! :sign:

Seriously though, Mike it's funny you should say that because this is exactly what I've been witnessing lately and actually what prompted me to begin my 'research'. Thanks for the insight.... everyone!

 

[rectifythis]

I've had enough bad singles come from that era in terms of draw to cause me to avoid any box purchases.

 

[golfgar]

I had one box from that period (while I was living overseas that a foreign national friend of mine bought with his home currency and gave me) which was positively the worst box of cigars I have ever experienced. Almost all were plugged, more than 75% were unsmokeable even with the draw poker. Sancho belicosos. Yet other boxes smoked just fine. I do not tend to totally stay away, but rather try and get some outside of those years.

 

[mmburtch]

I'm working through a box of ERDM Grande de Espana that are very tight and difficult to smoke. Other than that, I've had good luck in that era.

 

[Footbag]

I've been aging some Cohiba Esplenditos from around that time. They were purchased the week before 9-11 in Cuba. After patiently not smoking them for all of this time, I've found that nearly half of them are plugged. I've already tossed one after under one inch. What really kills it is when there are a few of us smoking them, and it's almost a sure thing that someone will have a bad cigar.