iPhone...

[moki]

I still think it's funny to watch people react as if it something completely new - even my boss likes it and he can't grasp what mine can do, yet he's just falling for the marketing hype and how 'nice it looks'. Not one thing in that list is actually new for a PDA/phone - more like standard fare for every PocketPC for at least a couple of generations now. Although the visual voicemail seems like it is, I'd guess it's somewhat related to the video conferencing available on Pocket PCs with the second video camera built into the front of the unit, and Cingular's video service (or it's something more simple like sending a video attachment in an MMS and re-marketed as voice-mail).

As someone who has been in the technology industry for 20 years or so, I'm quite sure I'm not "falling for the marketing hype" or believing it is something that it isn't. I'm a bit too jaded for that.

As for your statement that "every pocket PC for a couple of generations" has the features of the iPhone as "standard fare", I was going to enumerate all of the features the iPhone offers, and note that your statement is specious at best, but I'll just give you links instead.

You find me a PocketPC device that has all of these features as "standard fare" in a device like the iPhone:

http://www.apple.com/iphone/internet/

http://www.apple.com/iphone/ipod/

http://www.apple.com/iphone/phone/

Until it comes out, and people can play with and actually come up with 3rd party software fort it, it's still just a guessing game based on the vague "tech specs" that they've released so far. The lemmings will be out buying in full force when it's released, then it will be ripped apart by the haters for every little flaw (real or imagined), and if they decide to smarten up and get with the times for the next version, Apple Inc. (that name change is a whole other can of worms they opened, yet again) should be at the very least something that will hold it's own by the time it's released for the rest of the carriers. Of course, if they insist on mindless things like not being apple to change a battery, especially with that quoted battery life, they might just end up with a Newton 2.0 on their hands.

Actually, no, not for everyone it isn't a "guessing game" -- many people, myself included, know far more about the device than "vague tech specs" -- that's why we're registered developers.

While I understand it is convenient to think of anyone who would buy something like an iPod as "lemmings", what you're missing is that they've bought the iPod because Apple has provided them with a complete package in a form that no one else prior (or to date, subsequent) has been able to do.

I agree that the battery design could be a critical flaw; but it wasn't done for a silly reason. How else do you think they were able to get the device so small? With a custom molded battery that runs the length of the phone. It's not a decision that was made lightly, they decided that having a smaller, lighter form factor was worth the negative aspects of not having a replaceable battery.

We'll see how right they were...

 

[Zeebra]

So, Moki, you not only get VIP passes to cigar events but to Mac events as well? You make me cream my panties with access like that. I've been on Mac since the days of the Quadra 800...

Anyhow, the only other miss that you didn't point out is that the iPhone is a 2G as opposed to 3G phone, that's significant, especially on a convergence device - I'd want the best of all worlds, not mediocre slices of each. The other thing, which you pointed out, is that it's tied to Cingular. If they'd sell this as a multiband unlocked GSM phone, it'd be worth the tag - as is, I think it's very much an early adopter's product.

3G is not significant for two reasons:

1) It's tied to Cingular for now anyway, and 3G coverage is available only in major metro areas through Cingular in the USA: http://www.cingular.com/learn/3g/?_requestid=13218

2) Apple stated they will be doing 3G versions of the iPhone, likely for Europe and Asia first, and the USA whenever 3G networks are more widely used here: http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/macworld2007/ru...ming-227850.php

It's a platform, not a static reference design. You'll see 3G versions of it.

Usually I think Moki is full of crap, but in this case I fully support his Apple fan-boy tactics! I think the iPhone is going to be a hit, and Apple will do to cellphones what they did to the portable music player market. :thumbs:

 

[MonkeyK]

If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

Moki, various reports describe the limitations that Apple is putting on what can be installed on the IPhone. Do you have any idea of how restrictive that will be? As a device converging PDA and phone, I find the IPhone to be very compelling (perhaps enough so to switch carriers), but don't want to hold out hope for a pda/phone that does not have many applications to choose from. I find that using a PDA is a highly personalized experience and some apps that seem to make sense for everyone else just don't make any sense for me (frequently these apps are related to task management).

 

[moki]

If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

Moki, various reports describe the limitations that Apple is putting on what can be installed on the IPhone. Do you have any idea of how restrictive that will be? As a device converging PDA and phone, I find the IPhone to be very compelling (perhaps enough so to switch carriers), but don't want to hold out hope for a pda/phone that does not have many applications to choose from. I find that using a PDA is a highly personalized experience and some apps that seem to make sense for everyone else just don't make any sense for me (frequently these apps are related to task management).

Yeah, that's a very good point. As a developer, the interesting thing to me is that it is running a "lite" version of OS X, which should make development for it fairly easy. In addition, "widgets" seem to actually be MacOS X widgets, in terms of being a combination of JavaScript + graphics + HTML, which makes sense, because they automatically run in their own sandbox.

Now, so far, Apple has not made any kind of SDK available to developers at all. The rationale, it seems, is that while third party applications are useful, they also have also mucked up the user experience on a number of "open platform" phones.

My understanding is that no decision has been made on it yet (they do have 5 months before these even hit the market, after all). On one end of the spectrum, it could work the way the iPod does, meaning that it is a closed system, Apple controls all of the user experience to ensure it is up to snuff, and "blesses" key developers with access to the platform. Some of the games available on the current iPods, for instance, were done by third party developers, but Apple has to give you explicit access for this to happen.

The other end of the spectrum is that the phone platform could be opened up for development by anyone, possibly without any kind of certification process from Apple at all. Especially for harmless things like Widgets that already live in a "sandbox" this approach certainly could work.

Which way they will go with it, no one knows for sure yet, and it's possible that Apple hasn't even decided how best to handle it. They have made public statements that seem to imply that there will not be a publicly available SDK, but rather that they will go with the "blessed" route, but we'll see...

 

[BkCloud114]

Bottom line...... I have Cingular.... I will get one of these as soon as they hit the market......

Hey Andrew..... do ya know anyone who could help me get one ...

 

[moki]

Bottom line...... I have Cingular.... I will get one of these as soon as they hit the market......

Hey Andrew..... do ya know anyone who could help me get one ...

Yeah sure... right here...

 

[BkCloud114]

son of a bitch....... :laugh:

 

[moki]

Interesting article that addresses a number of the points raised here:

Ten Myths of the Apple iPhone

 

[BkCloud114]

Awesome article.... Thanks Andrew

I specifically like number 5..... sounds like a few people here....

Myth Five: The iPhone is just a phone with features lots of other phones already have.

This will be popular among the Thurrott crowd, who like to downplay innovation by saying something vaguely similar has already been done.

Yes, the iPhone is a phone, but you'd have to be a complete moron with zero vision to look at it and say “it's been done before.” Key features are not only shockingly well presented, but will be difficult to even copy.

•The multitouch screen isn't innovative because it's a touch screen; it's new because it offers a finger gesture system that just makes sense and is intuitive.
•Visual voicemail is obvious in retrospect, but nobody in the last half decade of phone development at Palm or Microsoft thought to fix the problem.
•Ever use an existing phone's web browser? Apple has demonstrated the difference between a placeholder product and a well executed one that actually works.

“At the risk of playing into the hype of the iPhone, seeing is believing with this device.”
-- Gene Munster, Piper Jaffray

“It’s not just candy. These are entirely useful, new ways to use your phone.”
-- Mike McGuire, Gartner

“This product could not have been done two years ago and come to market the way that it has. Yes, I know other devices can do a lot of what the iPhone can do but that’s like saying there’s a lot of other music players out there as well.”
-- Michael Gartenberg, Jupiter Research

 

[gmilich]

I don't care if cingular was giving out free Ipod Phones with built in TVs and a free year service, cingular sucks here in TN and in Alabama (when I lived there I had it.)

I like my Verizon Pocket PC phone also. :thumbs:

I agree. cingular sucks. I have the Motorola Q.....Love it

 

[IgwanaRob]

I still think it's funny to watch people react as if it something completely new - even my boss likes it and he can't grasp what mine can do, yet he's just falling for the marketing hype and how 'nice it looks'. Not one thing in that list is actually new for a PDA/phone - more like standard fare for every PocketPC for at least a couple of generations now. Although the visual voicemail seems like it is, I'd guess it's somewhat related to the video conferencing available on Pocket PCs with the second video camera built into the front of the unit, and Cingular's video service (or it's something more simple like sending a video attachment in an MMS and re-marketed as voice-mail).

As someone who has been in the technology industry for 20 years or so, I'm quite sure I'm not "falling for the marketing hype" or believing it is something that it isn't. I'm a bit too jaded for that.

You're not my boss , but that doesn't change the fact that all he knows is what he's seen in print and on TV so far - and he's thinking it's all new ideas when it's not. Like I've already said, my out-dated PPC/phone can do all and more (the multi-point touch screen is different, evolutionary it seems, but how durable it is, and how well will it perform once you put a screen protector on is yet to be seen - it is still an unproven technology at this point).

As for your statement that "every pocket PC for a couple of generations" has the features of the iPhone as "standard fare", I was going to enumerate all of the features the iPhone offers, and note that your statement is specious at best, but I'll just give you links instead.

You find me a PocketPC device that has all of these features as "standard fare" in a device like the iPhone:
<Links Snipped>

I've seen those links since they went live. I've posted a link to my phone, and to HTC website - they make the vast majority of Pocket PCs, PPC/cell phones, and Smartphones running the WM software (yeah, I forgot to add 'phone' to the Pocket PC in that part you quoted, but It should have been obvious since we're talking about PDA/cell phone devices and not stand alone PPCs). The vast majority of current (and a lot of depreciated units as well) PPC/cell phones all have media player software on them (although I'd rather use some of the better 3rd party software players), full web browsers (not ones that require page/code manipulation to view, although it offers that as an option), email, PIM, digital/video cameras (some, like mine, have models without - does the iPhone?), expandable memory options (another thing I don't see listed on the iPhone), bluetooth, IR (another thing I don't see on the iPhone) - a lot of them have WiFi, and physical keyboards as well (mine was actually one of the first to have all of these options in one unit). The only thing Apple can possibly claim is that they have a different way of doing some of them, but not that any of the options are actually "revolutionary" - nor were they the first to combine them on one device. Evolutionary? Sure. Revolutionary? That's just a marketing ploy.

Until it comes out, and people can play with and actually come up with 3rd party software fort it, it's still just a guessing game based on the vague "tech specs" that they've released so far. The lemmings will be out buying in full force when it's released, then it will be ripped apart by the haters for every little flaw (real or imagined), and if they decide to smarten up and get with the times for the next version, Apple Inc. (that name change is a whole other can of worms they opened, yet again) should be at the very least something that will hold it's own by the time it's released for the rest of the carriers. Of course, if they insist on mindless things like not being apple to change a battery, especially with that quoted battery life, they might just end up with a Newton 2.0 on their hands.

Actually, no, not for everyone it isn't a "guessing game" -- many people, myself included, know far more about the device than "vague tech specs" -- that's why we're registered developers.

Most people aren't registered developers, and Apple is always vague about technical specs in their ads/promos. Since you say you know so much about the device that is coming out:
- What kind processor chip is[are] in it?
- What speed/power is it?
- How much memory (not storage) does it have and use for the OS?
- What is the standby battery time for phone usage?
- Can you turn off all the anoying animated stuff? (I hate it on my desktop, I hate it even more on my phone)
- Will you be able to work on basic things like text documents, or more sophisticated things like the Office suite can on PPCs?
- Can you use different web browsers, email clients, PIM clients, or even phone dialers for that matter?
- Will it come with a built in terminal manager so you can control/access other computers?
- Will is support Direct Push, or BlackBerry's push technology?
- WIll there be something equivalent to MS's remote device wipe in case of theft?
- What Bluetooth stack and profiles does it support? (probably Worldcom, Apple's usually smart with that technology, but hopeully it will support A2DP and AVRCP in addition to typical the typical profiles at the very least)
- Will the OS/ROM be easily upgradeable? (I'm running a T-Mobile ROM on my phone, since Cingular is actually pretty pathetic when it comes to adding features and updates to thier products - one of the reasons I can see people listing their partnership to be a bad thing)

I'm not concerned with stuff the "might" make into a later model, I want to know what the iPhone that is slated to come out mid-year actually has, and what it is capable of doing that my meager out-dated PPC/phone can't do.

While I understand it is convenient to think of anyone who would buy something like an iPod as "lemmings", what you're missing is that they've bought the iPod because Apple has provided them with a complete package in a form that no one else prior (or to date, subsequent) has been able to do.

I didn't say, nor even imply, that anyone who buys an iPod is a lemming, so I don't know why you are saying I did. I made a very valid point about the lemmings that will go crazy and buy anything merely because there is an Apple logo on it, and the people that will bash it for the same reason (it seemed obvious to me - if anything, Apple fanboys are more rabid and quicker to put down anyone who disagrees with them more than Playstation, XBox, and Nintendo fanboys put together!) Kind of like the people who think a cigar is good simply because CA said so, and those that bash anything Fuente puts out simply because they don't like their "marketing strategy"

Point is, they are not close to being the first to make a device that combines multimedia, email, internet, PIM, camera, and phone capabilities - HTC has been doing it for years (although it wasn't until WM5 came along that they were fairly dependable devices). They certainly seem to be improving on some of those technologies, but they didn't bring together in one device before anyone else.

I agree that the battery design could be a critical flaw; but it wasn't done for a silly reason. How else do you think they were able to get the device so small? With a custom molded battery that runs the length of the phone. It's not a decision that was made lightly, they decided that having a smaller, lighter form factor was worth the negative aspects of not having a replaceable battery.

We'll see how right they were...

I'm sure they can fix it, but I wouldn't call the device small by any means. It's very thin, but not small overall (it's a lot bigger than the one I carry around, and that's pushing the limit of something I want to carry around all day as it is, in spite of being relatively small). Really not much more than a personal opinion on this though, it seems phone go from one end of the spectrum to the other so far as size and popularity at any given time goes.

Interesting article that addresses a number of the points raised here:

Ten Myths of the Apple iPhone

Some good points, but a lot of opinion as well (and petty insults when he can't figure out how to defend Apple - which is sadly typical of someone that can't explain why they think they or their ideas are better than everyone else's). I do hope that end users will have the option of turning off the automatic WiFi/Edge switching - otherwise that will require he WiFi NIC to be on at all times, and that will completely destroy the battery life (there's not too much room for play in it's capabilities as it stands). What comes out of that article is that Apple is trying to push a niche device into the mass market (which is a fair conclusion), although they're trying to sell it at a higher price than existing products that are aimed more at the business sector than the mass market. Marketing is everything, and if anyone can break out into the mass market with a niche device it is without a doubt going to be Apple.

 

[IgwanaRob]

Awesome article.... Thanks Andrew

I specifically like number 5..... sounds like a few people here....

Myth Five: The iPhone is just a phone with features lots of other phones already have.

This will be popular among the Thurrott crowd, who like to downplay innovation by saying something vaguely similar has already been done.

Yes, the iPhone is a phone, but you'd have to be a complete moron with zero vision to look at it and say “it's been done before.”
Key features are not only shockingly well presented, but will be difficult to even copy.

•The multitouch screen isn't innovative because it's a touch screen; it's new because it offers a finger gesture system that just makes sense and is intuitive.
•Visual voicemail is obvious in retrospect, but nobody in the last half decade of phone development at Palm or Microsoft thought to fix the problem.
•Ever use an existing phone's web browser? Apple has demonstrated the difference between a placeholder product and a well executed one that actually works.

See, that's the petty insulting that I was talking about. Overall the article had some very valid points, but then he degenerates into immature name calling instead of stating facts that can stand on their own.

And since when was voice mail ever a "problem"? It wasn't until they decided to do something different in conjunction with a service provider and market that as a feature - You can't claim to fix something that wasn't broken in the first place. Call it what it is, a different option - a new way of doing something old - not a corrected problem (and it had nothing to do With MS or Palm like he's trying to claim - it's always been a phone company service option for crying out loud).

I have zero problems with the full version browser on my PPC phone - although older versions of the software, and other PDA browsers were definitely lacking (and you can't justify comparing either to the limited WAP browsers on regular cell phones). I can display web pages exactly as you see them on any other computer*, or have them auto-formatted for single column viewing, or let IE reformat and resize images to fit the screen on it;s own (which is does surprisingly well, considering it is IE). Of course, I can install Firefox or Opera on my PPC if I wanted to as well (doesn't look like that will even be an option with the iPhone, but we'll have to wait and see for that).

* you have to scroll more, but the text is at least readable and not microscopic like the images on Apple's site show for the NY Times page, although (I hope) that's probably just a mock up and not what it actually looks like.

 

[IgwanaRob]

I don't care if cingular was giving out free Ipod Phones with built in TVs and a free year service, cingular sucks here in TN and in Alabama (when I lived there I had it.)

I like my Verizon Pocket PC phone also. :thumbs:

I agree. cingular sucks. I have the Motorola Q.....Love it

Service-wise it doesn't suck everywhere (you couldn't pay me to use Verizon here), but they are definitely a little crazy with their Data plan prices. And the Q isn't a PPC - it's a Smartphone

 

[moki]

Most people aren't registered developers, and Apple is always vague about technical specs in their ads/promos. Since you say you know so much about the device that is coming out:

Are you saying that you do not believe me? Difference of opinion is fine, but to imply that I'd not be telling the truth about something like this is... insulting. I need to break my NDA to prove myself to you? I think not...

Point is, they are not close to being the first to make a device that combines multimedia, email, internet, PIM, camera, and phone capabilities - HTC has been doing it for years (although it wasn't until WM5 came along that they were fairly dependable devices). They certainly seem to be improving on some of those technologies, but they didn't bring together in one device before anyone else.

You are missing the point entirely. Yes, in broad strokes, all of these things "have been done before" just like mp3 players had been "done before" the iPod came out. The arguments sound similar to the DOS diehards who thought the GUI the Macintosh used was a stupid idea, because it'd all been "done before" (and then Microsoft ended up cloning it with Windows).

So again, please point me at a device that offers the functionality that the iPhone does in one package.

 

[ThankYouForNotSmoking]

Most people aren't registered developers, and Apple is always vague about technical specs in their ads/promos. Since you say you know so much about the device that is coming out:

Are you saying that you do not believe me? Difference of opinion is fine, but to imply that I'd not be telling the truth about something like this is... insulting. I need to break my NDA to prove myself to you? I think not...

Point is, they are not close to being the first to make a device that combines multimedia, email, internet, PIM, camera, and phone capabilities - HTC has been doing it for years (although it wasn't until WM5 came along that they were fairly dependable devices). They certainly seem to be improving on some of those technologies, but they didn't bring together in one device before anyone else.

You are missing the point entirely. Yes, in broad strokes, all of these things "have been done before" just like mp3 players had been "done before" the iPod came out. The arguments sound similar to the DOS diehards who thought the GUI the Macintosh used was a stupid idea, because it'd all been "done before" (and then Microsoft ended up cloning it with Windows).

So again, please point me at a device that offers the functionality that the iPhone does in one package.

Kind of.

(tongue in cheek! )

 

[moki]

MacBook doesn't make cellular calls or have a touchscreen or do visual voicemail

 

[ThankYouForNotSmoking]

MacBook doesn't make cellular calls or have a touchscreen or do visual voicemail

Ann Arbor has city wide WiFi, I use Skype. Er, no touchscreen, but that neat OWC tablet Macbook does. As for visual voicemail, who needs it, I love listening to the 13 messages my mom left me before missing the 1 important one at the end from my school.

I'm not being stubborn, my arguments make PERFECT SENSE. I INSIST!

 

[IgwanaRob]

Most people aren't registered developers, and Apple is always vague about technical specs in their ads/promos. Since you say you know so much about the device that is coming out:

Are you saying that you do not believe me? Difference of opinion is fine, but to imply that I'd not be telling the truth about something like this is... insulting. I need to break my NDA to prove myself to you? I think not...

Not saying your lying, just asking for actual details and technical specs. Something more than specific that can actually be used to compare the thing with other units, because as it stands - my outdated PPC/phone appears to be more capable than the iPhone in so far as basic features and capabilities. All the specs I asked about are listed for the PPC/phones made by HTC, and many of them have all the features. There is no comparing the iPhone to any of them without actual facts.

Point is, they are not close to being the first to make a device that combines multimedia, email, internet, PIM, camera, and phone capabilities - HTC has been doing it for years (although it wasn't until WM5 came along that they were fairly dependable devices). They certainly seem to be improving on some of those technologies, but they didn't bring together in one device before anyone else.

You are missing the point entirely. Yes, in broad strokes, all of these things "have been done before" just like mp3 players had been "done before" the iPod came out. The arguments sound similar to the DOS diehards who thought the GUI the Macintosh used was a stupid idea, because it'd all been "done before" (and then Microsoft ended up cloning it with Windows).

So again, please point me at a device that offers the functionality that the iPhone does in one package.

I not missing the point, I was the one making it. HTC is the manufacturer that makes the vast majority of all WM devices, including the PPC PDA/phones I'm talking about. From their product page, you can start with my phone that I already linked to Cingular's 8125 - (here's the manufacturer's link), and go from there. The older T-Mobile MDA Vario units pictured are the same as the 8125 internally (cosmetically different, and the other have that ugly external antenna) - all 3 have the same basic feature set in one package the iPhone claims (and more), and these are all depreciated units. They're successors offer a few other things (dual cameras for video conferencing, built-in GPS, etc, etc)

If you want to get down and dirty and see what these things are actually capable of once you get under the hood, xda-developers is a site geared at power users and developers. They're one of the reasons I went with my phone last year - the HTC Wizard- the reason I'm running a customized ROM that runs faster than the stock OS, unlocked the unit (to use non-Cingular ROMs as well as use the unit on any carrier), listening to stereo music in my AVRCP compatible bluetooth headphones, improved the digital camera (even pictures from units with 4 or 5 MP cameras still look like crap compared to stand alone digital cameras), and got the thing working a close to one-handed as possible with a WM device (something that the iPhone looks like it won't be capable of).

 

[IgwanaRob]

MacBook doesn't make cellular calls or have a touchscreen or do visual voicemail

Ann Arbor has city wide WiFi, I use Skype. Er, no touchscreen, but that neat OWC tablet Macbook does. As for visual voicemail, who needs it, I love listening to the 13 messages my mom left me before missing the 1 important one at the end from my school.

I'm not being stubborn, my arguments make PERFECT SENSE. I INSIST!

I can use Skype on my phone even though it's not technically a supported unit, but it's easy to do when you overclock it