I'm going to be controversial here and ask

[wam79]

How could Anyone's being killed by another for any reason not be tragic?
One of the flaws in your logic is that it is not more tragic when LE or military personell die in the line of duty. The "extra" is the fact that they chose do what they do to keep others safe. They do not, and should not, expect to die. They absolutly should not be expected to die.


Bill

 

[Lee]

Lumpy, please refrain from posting until you are cured from your stupidity. You and many other children like you are what's wrong with our country today, no sense of honor or pride! Just a bunch of snot nosed little brats who want it all now! STFU

 

[KayakinBoy]

Why is it considered a tragedy of extra proportions when a Law Enforcement Officer, or especially a member of our armed forces, gets hurt or dies?

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Being as my family is 3/4 in Law Enforcement, I can answer this in two ways.

1. I love them.
2. They are part of the large group of people, that make this world safe at night. They do what I could never do. Everyday, they wake up, without second thought, do there job, and know they could die. God bless them.

 

[LouieD]

These brave men and women have died protecting you, your family, and OUR democratic way of life. Society can NEVER repay the debit we owe them and their families for this ultimate sacrifice. The trajedy here is that you can not see the difference!

 

[LouieD]

I think that we should also add our Fire Fighters to those that deserve our highest accolades.

 

[grand cru no 2]

I'll tell you why I think the death of an officer or a soldier is different from a woman who is killed by an ex-husband. Two simple but very important words:

Duty and Sacrifice

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Ditto that. :sign:

 

[marcsheldon]

ive actually wondered just the opposite lumberg. why is it that were ok sending 18 year old kids overseas to defend our rights to sit here and chat about cigars all day yet the top story on the news is a guy who killed his crack whore girlfreind, or a rock star who od'd or the latest news on the runaway bride? the fallen soilder is lucky if he gets a blurb in his own local paper.

im tired of people protesting about our goverments involvement in war, when its our goverments involvement in war that allows them to freely protest. im also tired of my (gen "x") generation thinking veterans day is an excuse to get drunk and cookout, or independence day just a day off work. it makes me sad to know the majority of people my age and younger dont know what the meaning of dec. 7th is or what d-day represents, but i bet that same majority can tell you the last 3 remaining american idols from last season.

hey lumberg...if you havent already, do youself a favorand go watch band of brothers.

 

[BkCloud114]

I figured out what is wrong with Jonathan.....

 

[moki]

Nice box.

 

[Swissy]

I think that we should also add our Fire Fighters to those that deserve our highest accolades.

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Thank You... (14 year F/F...)

My .$02 worth is simply this... I cannot tell the number of times I have seen the cops taking CRAP from people because they are 'doing their job'- people in their face, yelling and screaming, threatening (not smart), and the unknown that lurks around every corner... in every car during a stop... behind every door they bang on, in the name of their job.

As a firefighter, there is NO WAY I would ever want their job. No way, no how. Give me a rip-snorting, flame spewing fire anyday. they are more predictable than any human on this earth. I cut a cop friend of mine out of a car, totally crushed, because some dumb kid got drunk- 5 people died including my friend. Hardest 'jaws of life' experience in my career so far. I still take off my hat every time I drive past the cross honoring him on the spot he died.

On the other hand, I've gotten an accomodation along with my captain at the time for saving a life in a fire. Medal ceremony, chief hanging it around my neck, newspaper coverage... and personally, I was embarrased with all the attention. I was just doing my job- I felt that there was no way that man would live without me doing what I felt I had to do, and no one else was going to do it but me and my crew.

As far as the military guys go... I spend HOURS working on my WWII aviation website- no money is generated, no bonus in any way, all because I love it... I feel we owe that generation more than we can ever repay. And that goes for the men and women serving today. I go to every parade, every celebration, and every stand down day I can to help out, just to show my appreciation.

When any of these guys dies in the line of duty, a small piece of every one of our liberties dies too.

But the best thing about all this, and the reason they die in the line of duty, is for you to have your opinion, and voice it in any way you chose without fear of reprisal- except from maybe a few BOTL's

 

[cigarsarge]

Just a few thoughts on a personal loss I incured last year. A friend of mine Sgt. Andy Bailey was killed in the line of duty. He was pursuing a crack head that had shot up a local mall while the early mall walkers were doing their thing. He grabbed a purse from an elderly lady and fired several shots at her.

He fled the scene, crashed his car and shot Sgt.Bailey fatally as he was exiting his car to try to apprehend him.

Is this nothing short of heroic? He gave his life in an attempt to protect you and yours from this maniac.

If someone breaks into your house, who is the first persons you are going to call. You expect them to come immediately and protect your house, your belongings and YOU. All at the cost of their lives. Every day as these officers put their clothes on, in this day and age, we are not sure if we will return home to our families. All because we care about others.

You go through the training either to become a cop or to become a military person, then you go to the streets, or to a country where life means nothing, watch others around you get killed in the line of duty, then see what perspective you talk from and what perespective your family would talk from. Especially, if you happened to be one of the ones that was killed or seriously wounded, giving your all to defend what you and your family enjoy as freedom in this country. Freedom has a great price, it always has, it always will.


Lumberg...The more I thought about your post the more pissed I became. you owe every cop, fireman, active duty military, and veteran an apology.

I guess I'm calling you out on this one. You are dead wrong. :angry:

 

[AVB]

I have to disagree. A question asked in good faith can't be wrong, he didn't disparage any of us involved in protecting the community or country. Our choice is precisely that.... our choice. If you are doing it for accolades when you are alive or passed you're in it for the wrong reason.

Lumberg...The more I thought about your post the more pissed I became. you owe every cop, fireman, active duty military, and veteran an apology.

I guess I'm calling you out on this one. You are dead wrong. :angry:

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[MiamiCubano]

I have to disagree. A question asked in good faith can't be wrong, he didn't disparage any of us involved in protecting the community or country. Our choice is precisely that.... our choice. If you are doing it for accolades when you are alive or passed you're in it for the wrong reason.

Lumberg...The more I thought about your post the more pissed I became. you owe every cop, fireman, active duty military, and veteran an apology.

I guess I'm calling you out on this one. You are dead wrong. :angry:

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That wasn't the tone, nor the point of his query. Rather it was, as I saw it, why should anyone give a sh*t about someone in the military, LE, fireman, etc, being killed in action over and above, say, a leech of society? Call it what you will, but the bottom line is that his question boiled down to noone's death really being anymore tragic nor important than the next, so long as they were doing what they chose to do.

That's bullsh*t, plain and simple.

 

[cigarsarge]

I have to disagree.  A question asked in good faith can't be wrong, he didn't disparage any of us involved in protecting the community or country.  Our choice is precisely that.... our choice.  If you are doing it for accolades when you are alive or passed you're in it for the wrong reason.

Lumberg...The more I thought about your post the more pissed I became. you owe every cop, fireman, active duty military, and veteran an apology.

I guess I'm calling you out on this one. You are dead wrong. :angry:

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AVB...I don't expect accolades or anything like that. I'm pissed that he would question why we honor our dead the way we do. I would not question why a scate boarder honors and buries his dead. He owes us the same common respect.

I really don't think it was asked in good faith. I think he has a problem with people in our chosen professions.

 

[Wascal]

I think you answered the question yourself. It's the fact they chose to put themselves in harms way. Less than 1% of the population in the US has the courage to do what they are doing, be it Military, Police or Fire Fighters. When we loose one of these men or women it's a tragedy because they were brave enough to be out on that thin line.

I had a bunch more on my mind, but it comes down the the fact, most just don't get it. All the talking and trying to help them understand isn't going to make a difference.

 

[AVB]

I see, a difference of how we looked at the question. I took it as a societal one with the "we" and some seem to have taken it as the inclusive "we".

I've met Jonathan twice and I don't think he had/has a problem with service people but 8 hours may not be enough to know for sure.

AVB...I don't expect accolades or anything like that. I'm pissed that he would question why we honor our dead the way we do. I would not question why a scate boarder honors and buries his dead. He owes us the same common respect.

I really don't think it was asked in good faith. I think he has a problem with people in our chosen professions.

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[cigarsarge]

I see, a difference of how we looked at the question. I took it as a societal one with the "we" and some seem to have taken it as the inclusive "we".

I've met Jonathan twice and I don't think he had/has a problem with service people but 8 hours may not be enough to know for sure.

AVB...I don't expect accolades or anything like that. I'm pissed that he would question why we honor our dead the way we do. I would not question why a scate boarder honors and buries his dead. He owes us the same common respect.

I really don't think it was asked in good faith. I think he has a problem with people in our chosen professions.

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I think you get my point now. When someone in public safety dies in the line of duty it is a personal thing with every one of us that share the same lifestyle. No one that does not live that life can never fully understand our brotherhood.

If someone in the public chooses to grieve with with us they are more than welcome. I'm glad some people support us in a job that stresses every aspect of our life. :thumbs:

 

[Lumberg]

First off I think maybe I was too reactionary. JimK had the best answer. Death is death. It doesn't matter who died. That person had a life, a family. Someone who loved him/her. Well the death of an upstanding person.

The main difference we are arguing is not the amount of respect due to those who put their lives on the line; it's the timing of the respect and honor. I give it the moment they sign up. For some reason others wait until the person's death occurs. To me the soldier who survived the firefight deserves the same respect, honor, etc. as his companion who died next to him.

Pat Tillman was a hero the minute he signed up to fight. Not when he died. See the difference? He would be just as big of a hero if he came back unhurt after kicking some ass. However most people had never heard of him until reports of his death.

The people who are protecting me, allowing me to be the best Information Systems Analyst (for cletus) I can be, are the living ones.

I'm a very cold, calculating person. I try to seek truth through logic. I see a symbolic value to death; it may inspire others.

Ultimately though I hope you who are taking shots at me recognize that we have the same goal: to make the world a better place. Perhaps we approach it from different angles. It takes all kinds. The world would not be served well if either side of this discussion were squelched.

 

[cletus]

Go play with your hackey sack, Hippie!

 

[Captain B]

On Sept 11th, when the firemen arrived at the WTC, they rushed in to save lives.
All the civilians that died is a tragedy, but when all the firemen died, it was worse. This includes the Police, and every other rescuer. Though they voluntarily took the job, this was a unique circumstance. They rushed in when everyone else rushed out. They all knew they was a good possibility they might die, and believe me, they knew. But they wanted to save lives. They didn't have to rush in, but they did. They could have stood outside and waited but they felt the need to try and save people. Yea, civilians died, but they had no choice - wrong place at the wrong time. But the fireman had a choice. They chose to help others that they never even met, over their own lives. We don't take these jobs to die, we take them to try and make a difference.
As far as the Armed Forces, they are all heros, dead or alive! It's just worse when one of them dies protecting freedom. So honoring them is a way of honoring all of them. They could have civilian jobs, but for whatever their reason is, they decided to protect us. So when one of them dies protecting us, they deserve being honored. It's called sacrafice - you have to understand what that means and maybe try it some day.