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Hypothetical, about enforcement

Yeah, it will be true once Bush's executive order expires in 345 days.
 
Cooke said:
Yeah, it will be true once Bush's executive order expires in 345 days.
Click to expand...

No it won't. Your information on this subject continues to be horribly wrong.

Your notion that these new regulations will expire because of some as yet to be explained reason, is completely wrong as well. These updated regulations will continue to be a part of the "Cuba Sanctions" under OFAC for the forseeable future. Only the next president can lift or change them through an amendment to the regs themselves. The chances are extremely remote that this will happen under any president in the near future.

BTW, if you know the Executive Order number that Bush signed regarding the strengthening of the Cuban sanctions, I would like to see it. I know of no such order, and can not seem to find any reference to one through either OFAC or The Whitehouse. My understanding is that Bush strengthened the sanction through regular regulatory channels issued to OFAC and the Treasury Department.

In addition, can you show me where you get the idea from that executive orders automatically expire when the issuing president leaves office?
 
First of all, I apologize for some of my past responses. I should have learned from mistakes instead of covering them up.

tandblov, about your question on if Executive Orders expire:

The best explanation I can find comes from USgovinfo. Scroll down to How Executive Orders May be Vacated. Each President gets a list of all Executive Orders that are in effect and he has the choice whether to resign them or not.
 
Ok, 31 C.F.R. § 515 was amended (effective date June 30th, 2004) to include an "across the board" ban on the importation of any Cuban goods (except informational material) even if a person was licensed by the Treasury Dept. to be in Cuba. The pertinent section is the first paragraph on the third page below:

Linky

So, no exec. order, just an amendment to the current law.
 
Importation of these Cuban goods is
prohibited whether the goods are purchased directly by the
importer or given to the importer as a gift.

The question is often asked whether United States citizens
or permanent resident aliens of the United States may
legally purchase Cuban origin goods, including tobacco and
alcohol products, in a third country for personal use
outside the United States. The answer is no.

So it is illegal to buy Cubans and it is illegal to import them into this country. But I don't see where it is illegal to possess them. All the links I've seen have dealt with purchases, transactions and importation but not with simple possession. If you were caught coming into the country with them I could see you would be in some hot water, but if some authority caught you with a box at your home, what would the consequences be? Could you not put forth the argument that they were a gift and were not imported or purchased? Just curious.
 
MoeCizlak said:
Importation of these Cuban goods is
prohibited whether the goods are purchased directly by the
importer or given to the importer as a gift.

The question is often asked whether United States citizens
or permanent resident aliens of the United States may
legally purchase Cuban origin goods, including tobacco and
alcohol products, in a third country for personal use
outside the United States. The answer is no.

So it is illegal to buy Cubans and it is illegal to import them into this country. But I don't see where it is illegal to possess them. All the links I've seen have dealt with purchases, transactions and importation but not with simple possession. If you were caught coming into the country with them I could see you would be in some hot water, but if some authority caught you with a box at your home, what would the consequences be? Could you not put forth the argument that they were a gift and were not imported or purchased? Just curious.
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While it is, per se, not illegal to to be in possession of Cuban origin goods, you can be convicted under 18 U.S.C.A. Sec. 545 which is smuggling goods into the U.S. But how can you be convicted of smuggling them into the country simply by possessing them you ask? Great question.....glad you asked it: "Proof of defendant's possession of such goods, unless explained to the satisfaction of the jury, shall be deemed evidence sufficient to authorize conviction for violation of this section." 18 U.S.C.A. Sec. 545.

Linky
 
Mike33 said:
MoeCizlak said:
Importation of these Cuban goods is
prohibited whether the goods are purchased directly by the
importer or given to the importer as a gift.

The question is often asked whether United States citizens
or permanent resident aliens of the United States may
legally purchase Cuban origin goods, including tobacco and
alcohol products, in a third country for personal use
outside the United States. The answer is no.

So it is illegal to buy Cubans and it is illegal to import them into this country. But I don't see where it is illegal to possess them. All the links I've seen have dealt with purchases, transactions and importation but not with simple possession. If you were caught coming into the country with them I could see you would be in some hot water, but if some authority caught you with a box at your home, what would the consequences be? Could you not put forth the argument that they were a gift and were not imported or purchased? Just curious.
Click to expand...

While it is, per se, not illegal to to be in possession of Cuban origin goods, you can be convicted under 18 U.S.C.A. Sec. 545 which is smuggling goods into the U.S. But how can you be convicted of smuggling them into the country simply by possessing them you ask? Great question.....glad you asked it: "Proof of defendant's possession of such goods, unless explained to the satisfaction of the jury, shall be deemed evidence sufficient to authorize conviction for violation of this section." 18 U.S.C.A. Sec. 545.

Linky
Click to expand...

And that is precisely the reason I love this place. Thank you Mike, that is exactly what I was looking for. From your link, I'm guessing getting caught smoking one cigar would not be deemed an attempt to "defraud the US", but having a walk-in stuffed with boxes of them would probably earn you a trip in front of jury. BTW, the term "clandestinely introduce" is now among my favorites and I will look to work that into several daily conversations. Thanks again Mike.

Out of curiosity, has anyone heard of someone getting into hot water just having them in their possession while not in an airport or attempting to re-enter the country?
 
Excellent info, this is why I spend hours and hours on here a day! GREAT debate!!! All very professional...
 
I have always wondered this one. Since I have Cherokee blood in my poor ole veins, how would the Government deal with this issue? Since I am both American and Native American. And yes, I can prove it. Just food for thought. :thumbs:
 
Its funny! When you think about it-the Chinese are communistic and a major part of our economic policy revovles around them. To bad they don't sell Cuban like cigars.
 
About 7-8 years ago there was an American that got caught in Bahamian waters with a saiboat full of ISOM's. US Customs took his boat and his cigars. The case was tried in US and the judge ordered that the boat be returned along with the cigars. The judge commented that the individual was doing what any other citizen could be doing in that area. That is to say that at that point in time he had not violated any rules as far as that judge was concerned. John
 
Johnny-O! said:
About 7-8 years ago there was an American that got caught in Bahamian waters with a saiboat full of ISOM's. US Customs took his boat and his cigars. The case was tried in US and the judge ordered that the boat be returned along with the cigars. The judge commented that the individual was doing what any other citizen could be doing in that area. That is to say that at that point in time he had not violated any rules as far as that judge was concerned. John
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I think you are referring to U.S. v. Plummer, 221 F.3d 1298 (11th Cir. 2000). The C. of A. reversed the dismissal and the case was remanded back to District Court for trial. Don't know if he was convicted or not, but I imagine he was.
 
US farmers SELL rice, poultry, cattle, produce to Cuba on an annual basis. Is that not trading with the enemy? On another note... elections are Feb 24 in Cuba. Fidel has not decided if he wants to run for President. Do you think he has a chance? Also on that date some new rulings/laws are going to be set to benefit the community. John
 
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