How to make CP better?

[Blue Dragon]

How very Pollyana of you, Cory...

Yes - Rod does control the CP community - and uses "user moderated" format in order to accomplish his vision. If you know anything about Rod, he's not one to stick his head in the sand in order to make the noise go away. He does appreciate ALL comments in this thread, and will assign value to the comments based upon his vision for this board, not what we think Rod should take out of it...

I think reviews, and cigar smoking, and herf's, and box passes, and trades, and bombs and... <et al> contributes to making a great site. But if you have a bunch of recklessness going on in the community, it ain't gonna be great for very long and I know that concerns Rod...

Polly wanna cracka?? :laugh: You like that?

Point well taken. I think it concerns us all. I'm just not sure that was what Rod was looking for out of his question, but only he can truely answer that. I understand the concern, but didn't see any ideas for a solution, or in some way that would add to the site. So if it isn't a suggestion about something that would add to the site, then it seemed off topic. While it may be a topic worthy of conversation, it didn't come off as constructive. So I tried to bring it back by offering some construcitve comments on golfgar's idea.

 

[stevehawk]

I dunno, but it seems that everyone who has needed their chops busted has gotten them busted. Perhaps not to the "degree" that was common in the past, but that -- in my opinion -- is a good thing. You can take out the trash without breaking the bag on the way out the door.

Do you have examples of folks who have not been called out for their actions? I can't recall anyone having received a free pass for anything. It just doesn't happen.

Oh, Steve...

There are some that have been called out who think they didn't deserve to be called out - and acted like an ass while others thought things needed to change around here and rose to their defense... Sad, but true... :whistling:

I can't recall any instance where a contributing member didn't own up to their errors or mistakes when they were made. I read this board pretty religiously and rarely miss anything, but if I'm mistaken on this, please let me know.

As for acting like asses, hell if that were a crime, half the board would be convicted for our actions at one time or another -- you and me included.

As for some members thinking that things need to change.... well, you can put my name on that list IF you are referring to changing the negativity that was prevalent on CP. We are Brothers/Sisters Of The Leaf, which means we are family in a sense. Call it pollyanna if you want, but I would like for our CP family to be a happy, well-adjusted one. Not one that calls each other names, or accuses well-meaning members of profiteering, or demeans others for having a difference of opinion.

On the other hand, if people screw up, call them on it and let them take the lumps they have earned. When a newb looks into starting a pass or box split, step up and help them out or explain to them the error of their ways. If a member tries to rip someone off or doesn't make good on a sale or trade, hang them up by their nards and ask Rod to give them the boot.

 

[gtphale]

Well said Hawk

 

[Hillbilly Steaks]

I know that each individual section of the forum has things that are sticky'd to draw more attention to them and make the resources readily available. But what if we could do something to draw attention to topics that people like myself, who are new to cigars could read and learn from. It seems that sometimes by chance I come across a really good thread and read through it and learn quite a bit. Almost certainly there are TONS of threads out there like this. Beauty of it is, they are topics that already exist.

So maybe have a section called Weekly suggested reading or something. A lot of the FOG's could really help out with this if they wanted to because of their knowledge of cigars, the forum, and topics of conversation from the past.

 

[SamClemmons]

I dunno, but it seems that everyone who has needed their chops busted has gotten them busted. Perhaps not to the "degree" that was common in the past, but that -- in my opinion -- is a good thing. You can take out the trash without breaking the bag on the way out the door.

Do you have examples of folks who have not been called out for their actions? I can't recall anyone having received a free pass for anything. It just doesn't happen.

Oh, Steve...

There are some that have been called out who think they didn't deserve to be called out - and acted like an ass while others thought things needed to change around here and rose to their defense... Sad, but true... :whistling:

I can't recall any instance where a contributing member didn't own up to their errors or mistakes when they were made. I read this board pretty religiously and rarely miss anything, but if I'm mistaken on this, please let me know.

As for acting like asses, hell if that were a crime, half the board would be convicted for our actions at one time or another -- you and me included.

As for some members thinking that things need to change.... well, you can put my name on that list IF you are referring to changing the negativity that was prevalent on CP. We are Brothers/Sisters Of The Leaf, which means we are family in a sense. Call it pollyanna if you want, but I would like for our CP family to be a happy, well-adjusted one. Not one that calls each other names, or accuses well-meaning members of profiteering, or demeans others for having a difference of opinion.

On the other hand, if people screw up, call them on it and let them take the lumps they have earned. When a newb looks into starting a pass or box split, step up and help them out or explain to them the error of their ways. If a member tries to rip someone off or doesn't make good on a sale or trade, hang them up by their nards and ask Rod to give them the boot.

Let's see...
Purobrat never owned up.
Davewf never did.
Tonydogs didn't.
Servebig never did.
There are a dozen others. The jagoffs left or have been keeping their heads down. That's why it's peaceful.

NA

 

[NullSmurf]

Bruce - Because you've only been here for a short ride, you weren't here for all the bumps previous to your arrival. And I was not here for all the bumps prior to my arrival (when others with more tenure were feeling those bumps). I trust the judgement of those that have established themselves as being trustworthy - much like you do. But I will not expect them (nor demand them, for that matter) to list out their grievances in public for me to judge. It's not my place, nor will I ask they do that before I make my judgement. If I'm truly concerned about what they're doing, I'll do the research, or direct my question directly to them in private - not just go off half-cocked in a thread... That makes one look REALLY foolish.

"Those who think you know it all are really annoying to those that really do!" (author unknown) Words to live by - I just wish more would heed the words...

...and what "vote" do you talk about? Are we running an election? Is it some kind of popularity contest where everyone votes their choices? Nope - the way I see it - this is a community set up by Rod, run by Rod's rulesand vision. Sorry - but none of us have a "vote" in that - it's very much autocratic, not democratic... :whistling:

Short ride, yes, but I tend to know my limitations. Yes it absolutely is a popularity contest and thats the context of what I mean by vote. Anyone who calls out bad form will get my attention. For a few, thats as far as I need to go. There are two here (that I know of) who spent 20 in the mud and the blood and know exactly where Chesty is that have all my respect. For others, its going to take a bit more. As for looking foolish, its not a new thing. If asking a question makes me look foolish, so bit it.

George, if you call out bad form, I may ask a question. If you answer it, you have a better chance of an ally. It may not matter to you where I stand and thats ok. I'm here for the ride now, bumps and all.

 

[SamClemmons]

Bruce - Because you've only been here for a short ride, you weren't here for all the bumps previous to your arrival. And I was not here for all the bumps prior to my arrival (when others with more tenure were feeling those bumps). I trust the judgement of those that have established themselves as being trustworthy - much like you do. But I will not expect them (nor demand them, for that matter) to list out their grievances in public for me to judge. It's not my place, nor will I ask they do that before I make my judgement. If I'm truly concerned about what they're doing, I'll do the research, or direct my question directly to them in private - not just go off half-cocked in a thread... That makes one look REALLY foolish.

"Those who think you know it all are really annoying to those that really do!" (author unknown) Words to live by - I just wish more would heed the words...

...and what "vote" do you talk about? Are we running an election? Is it some kind of popularity contest where everyone votes their choices? Nope - the way I see it - this is a community set up by Rod, run by Rod's rulesand vision. Sorry - but none of us have a "vote" in that - it's very much autocratic, not democratic... :whistling:

Short ride, yes, but I tend to know my limitations. Yes it absolutely is a popularity contest and thats the context of what I mean by vote. Anyone who calls out bad form will get my attention. For a few, thats as far as I need to go. There are two here (that I know of) who spent 20 in the mud and the blood and know exactly where Chesty is that have all my respect. For others, its going to take a bit more. As for looking foolish, its not a new thing. If asking a question makes me look foolish, so bit it.

George, if you call out bad form, I may ask a question. If you answer it, you have a better chance of an ally. It may not matter to you where I stand and thats ok. I'm here for the ride now, bumps and all.

Or..... not. Crazy people don't know they're crazy. They're crazy! Stupid people don't know they're stupid. They're stupid! Ignorant people don't know they're ignorant. They're ignorant! Prolific claimers of entitlement don't know they're not entitled. They don't shut up long enough.

NA

 

[AVB]

No, No, No. You have it all wrong. What was done in the past has, or should have, no bearing on any respect or lack there of earned here. I know plenty of folks who have done their 20 that are still complete A-holes. Being a Jarhead does not mean you are a good member of CP.

Respect members here because they have earned it not because of their age, longevity, post count or past. JMHO.

There are two here (that I know of) who spent 20 in the mud and the blood and know exactly where Chesty is that have all my respect. For others, its going to take a bit more.

 

[Cigar Penguin]

Sometimes you just love a reply/post or comment and would love to be able to just click and give a thumbs up without replying or post padding.How about a thumbs up feature?
The thumbs up would only be seen by the person it was given too.Its a cool feature to show some members recognition.....even newbs.I dunno,to me,some posts just dont require a reply but some kind of acknowledgement.


By the way...great work on the sight thus far and thank you for asking for some of our input.....I myself appreciate this.

 

[NullSmurf]

Or..... not. Crazy people don't know they're crazy. They're crazy! Stupid people don't know they're stupid. They're stupid! Ignorant people don't know they're ignorant. They're ignorant! Prolific claimers of entitlement don't know they're not entitled. They don't shut up long enough.

NA

Neal, what respect I had for you early on was already circling the bowl. It went down the hole shortly after that. I concede you're the smartest in the room, but our opinion is meaningless.

Thats all I have to saiy aboout thayat.

 

[ggiese]

I dunno, but it seems that everyone who has needed their chops busted has gotten them busted. Perhaps not to the "degree" that was common in the past, but that -- in my opinion -- is a good thing. You can take out the trash without breaking the bag on the way out the door.

Do you have examples of folks who have not been called out for their actions? I can't recall anyone having received a free pass for anything. It just doesn't happen.

Oh, Steve...

There are some that have been called out who think they didn't deserve to be called out - and acted like an ass while others thought things needed to change around here and rose to their defense... Sad, but true... :whistling:

I can't recall any instance where a contributing member didn't own up to their errors or mistakes when they were made. I read this board pretty religiously and rarely miss anything, but if I'm mistaken on this, please let me know.

As for acting like asses, hell if that were a crime, half the board would be convicted for our actions at one time or another -- you and me included.

As for some members thinking that things need to change.... well, you can put my name on that list IF you are referring to changing the negativity that was prevalent on CP. We are Brothers/Sisters Of The Leaf, which means we are family in a sense. Call it pollyanna if you want, but I would like for our CP family to be a happy, well-adjusted one. Not one that calls each other names, or accuses well-meaning members of profiteering, or demeans others for having a difference of opinion.

On the other hand, if people screw up, call them on it and let them take the lumps they have earned. When a newb looks into starting a pass or box split, step up and help them out or explain to them the error of their ways. If a member tries to rip someone off or doesn't make good on a sale or trade, hang them up by their nards and ask Rod to give them the boot.

Let's talk hypotheticals here - it seems everyone's getting chesty because they think I'm talking about them. Don't know why, unless maybe they have a guilty conscious...

What's the limit?

Well meaning? What is "well meaning"? If someone didn't MEAN to profit from their sales, but does anyway - that's okay? If someone screws up, profits and is pissed because they're asked about it - getting all bristly because they don't like the insuation - that's okay? If someone does profit, dismisses it as a "mistake" - that's okay?

Coach the newbs when they want to have a box pass? What if they don't want to be coached because they insist they know what they're doing? Should we let it go in the interest of preserving the peace, even though red flags are flying all over?

And if a box split is screwed up - it's okay if it's a guy new to group buys? Maybe he shouldn't have done the box split in the first place - and if it's suggested that's what should happen and if he's indignant with the community - telling them it's none of their business because they're not in his group buy - that's okay, right? 'Cause lately everyone gets pissed when someone messes with their ISOM buys - even if it is screwed up...

Someone does a trade, doesn't know squat about ISOM's, yet calls out the other party for the counterfeits they've received (despite the fact they've received the real thing)? And take offense to being asked about it, even if it is in private? 'Cause lately it seems the community is wanting the "forbidden fruit" and not willing to be mentored by the FOG's - even showing indignation because they're initially rebuffed...

Subtly, surely, this community is changing. This is not the way many of the older members would have done things a while back, but then again - maybe this is a better way?

Keep up the discussion, though - this sure is a very enlightening view of the state of the union.

 

[SamClemmons]

Or..... not. Crazy people don't know they're crazy. They're crazy! Stupid people don't know they're stupid. They're stupid! Ignorant people don't know they're ignorant. They're ignorant! Prolific claimers of entitlement don't know they're not entitled. They don't shut up long enough.

NA

Neal, what respect I had for you early on was already circling the bowl. It went down the hole shortly after that. I concede you're the smartest in the room, but our opinion is meaningless.

Thats all I have to saiy aboout thayat.

LMAO. Thank God. Thanks for proving my point with your final say though.

NA

 

[BlindedByScience]

As for some members thinking that things need to change.... well, you can put my name on that list IF you are referring to changing the negativity that was prevalent on CP. We are Brothers/Sisters Of The Leaf, which means we are family in a sense. Call it pollyanna if you want, but I would like for our CP family to be a happy, well-adjusted one. Not one that calls each other names, or accuses well-meaning members of profiteering, or demeans others for having a difference of opinion.

On the other hand, if people screw up, call them on it and let them take the lumps they have earned. When a newb looks into starting a pass or box split, step up and help them out or explain to them the error of their ways. If a member tries to rip someone off or doesn't make good on a sale or trade, hang them up by their nards and ask Rod to give them the boot.

To be clear, this was the first forum I started frequenting when I got interested in cigars. I took a shot or two, have learned a few things, and still hang out and contribute as I can. I don't know much, but I do know a little. Always learning and respectful of the long term members and policies that made this board great...I try to stay there. I like this board, and would like it to be successful, and be around for years to come. Having said that, I'm worried about the future. I guess that's why I have pretty strong feelings about this. I have no axe to grind with anyone specifically, and only want the best for this board going forward.

If you are willing to buy into the "self moderated" mode of operation, guess what? Sometimes, someone is going to get called a name! Oh, shudder! Hypothetically, what should a more experienced member do when a "well meaning" member is (gasp) selling sticks at 2-3X what you know the going rate is? Let's see, now, we want things to be "happy, well-adjusted" but he might need to be called on the carpet. Does he need to get banned? I'd say no, but he does need to take some lumps. Just like most of us did over the years. He'll either learn, or run away. Fine with me. Do we keep our mouths shut when we see a box split going poorly? Do we just say "...oh, that's OK, he's a noobie and he'll learn...' and watch fellow BOTL's twist in the wind? Especially when the box split leader was offered advice from solid FOG's and basically blew them off? Should the guys that made this board great just watch and say "...told ya..." after the fact? I've been in a lousy split, and the advice of the guys that came before me was solid, and appreciated. I got my sticks....six months late.

I see two paths; things can go the way they have successfully for years - you get in, shut up, sit down, and hang on. You read more, post less, and take advantage of some of the best cigar knowledge on the net. When you screw up, you take your lumps, acquire some knowledge, and move on. Or, we "....never call(s) each other names, or accuse(s) well-meaning members of profiteering, or demean(s) others for having a difference of opinion..." and hope for the best.

....please.

Again, my $00.02 - B.B.S.

 

[prophetic_joe]

Let's talk hypotheticals here - it seems everyone's getting chesty because they think I'm talking about them. Don't know why, unless maybe they have a guilty conscious...

What's the limit?

Well meaning? What is "well meaning"? If someone didn't MEAN to profit from their sales, but does anyway - that's okay? If someone screws up, profits and is pissed because they're asked about it - getting all bristly because they don't like the insuation - that's okay? If someone does profit, dismisses it as a "mistake" - that's okay?

Coach the newbs when they want to have a box pass? What if they don't want to be coached because they insist they know what they're doing? Should we let it go in the interest of preserving the peace, even though red flags are flying all over?

And if a box split is screwed up - it's okay if it's a guy new to group buys? Maybe he shouldn't have done the box split in the first place - and if it's suggested that's what should happen and if he's indignant with the community - telling them it's none of their business because they're not in his group buy - that's okay, right? 'Cause lately everyone gets pissed when someone messes with their ISOM buys - even if it is screwed up...

Someone does a trade, doesn't know squat about ISOM's, yet calls out the other party for the counterfeits they've received (despite the fact they've received the real thing)? And take offense to being asked about it, even if it is in private? 'Cause lately it seems the community is wanting the "forbidden fruit" and not willing to be mentored by the FOG's - even showing indignation because they're initially rebuffed...

Subtly, surely, this community is changing. This is not the way many of the older members would have done things a while back, but then again - maybe this is a better way?

Keep up the discussion, though - this sure is a very enlightening view of the state of the union.

Hey George I think you're a very knowledgeable guy and I've always got along with you which is why I wanted to ask you this. What are you're answers to the hypothetical questions you asked? Just curious because they are good questions and I think they deserve answers.

 

[Rod]

Blue Dragon - You're right, I was expecting more feedback on features and information. However, I'm always open to hearing what people think.

Sam - You posted the list of those who didn't own up to their mistakes before I could...

George - Good points made. We will probably instate some mentors soon. New members are kind of in the dark, and do need guidance sometimes. If they choose to disobey our rules, they will be suspended or banned.

BBS - The future holds nothing but success for CP. Some of you guys have the idea that because a community is growing it will turn into something of lesser quality. We will continue to grow as well as evolve. More membership means a different way of mainaining order, and hopefully without moderators, rather with mentors. CP has been around for over 6 years, and will be around for many more years to come. Our grassroots will not change. While the long time members of CP contributed to making this a great site, there are many other factors that also made CP what it is today. I'm very happy with the site, and when you put all and all together, this is still one of the best cigar forums on the internet, imo. I don't believe one member is better than another, nor do I believe that certain members are allowed to break the rules.

You guys need to keep in mind that while CP is a general cigar forum, our background and history is built on trading cigars. With that said, we need to ensure people treat others in a responsible and fair manner.

If you do have a problem with a member and feel s/he is continuing to take advantage of the membership here, then please email me.

So, we have some good suggestions so far. Any other features, info, etc you'd like to see here? If we can get members to help submit info, I'll be happy to add it to the site.

Thanks for your feedback so far...

Rod :thumbs:

 

[BrownDevil]

Rod,

Unless you're messing with me again... :whistling:

please put the smilies back in their original order....trying to give you a :thumbs: and I end up wondering if you wore underwear today by clicking :whistling:

Stop torturing us :laugh:

 

[stevehawk]

Sometimes you just love a reply/post or comment and would love to be able to just click and give a thumbs up without replying or post padding.How about a thumbs up feature?
The thumbs up would only be seen by the person it was given too.Its a cool feature to show some members recognition.....even newbs.I dunno,to me,some posts just dont require a reply but some kind of acknowledgement.


By the way...great work on the sight thus far and thank you for asking for some of our input.....I myself appreciate this.

Excellent suggestion... :thumbs:

If we had that feature I would have just used it.

 

[NullSmurf]

Thumbs up on the mentor idea.

 

[Zeebra]

Take the swear filter off the chat room.

 

[Infinity]

golfgar touched on a way to rate cigars, how about...
We start a "Cigars of the Month" type format where...

Experienced members rotate on a panel, just as you currently do on the Newbie Sampler Trade. You could have two panels of 12 experienced members in each panel(explained below).

One panel of 12 experienced members do group buys of premium cigars, say $7 to $20 for participants who have pre-paid, you could have 10 to 20 participants. The other panel of 12 experienced members do group buys of cigars say in the $3 to $7 range.

Every month (or every 2 weeks) a different experienced member does the purchasing for the participants. The experienced member does not pay for his cigars in that month, his share is paid for by the work he has to do to procure and ship the cigars.

Every participant rates the cigars and posts the rating for all to see. An average rating can then be assessed as is done on other cigar rating sites.

Participants should pay up front for say, at least 3 months which allows the organizer (experienced member) sufficient time to plan. These participants should have the option to continue for another 3 months before their spot becomes vacant. How about $100 a month for the premium panel and $50 for the $3 to $7 range.

Rod asked for suggestions, this is my 0.2 cents.

Sign me up and tell me where to send my $300 for the premium group.

Brian