While a trusted, friendly, honest, local B&M is still a very good bet, the truth is that with the quality of the vendors that frequent these pages, I don't miss the Holt's of the cigar universe at all.
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Holt's hotwire catalog
- Thread starter mmburtch
- Start date
Dozerhead
New Member
The royal flush sampler on the front of the catalog was almost good enough to get met to end my boycott of Holt's. 'Almost' being the operative word. There are plenty of other reputable online vendors I would rather give my money to.
whopper
cheers !
- Joined
- May 21, 2008
- Messages
- 2,426
smokelaw1
Cigar Ambassador
Geez, me too!....I take a few months off except to pop in and sell off some extra stock, and look at what I miss!
All forumites will be thrilled to hear that I caused (by mistake, completely by accident, i swear!) a Noob meltdown of sorts on another site I visit today. They aren't blocked from work, and as such get my time lately (then again, I spend a buttload more time actually working now).
I suspect that part of the motivation for the apology was to possibly heal some wounds at the manufacturers /insiders level. With the acquisition of CigarsInternational and subsequent visibility to the public, there might very well be an attempt to compete at that level and mentality.
Lew Rothman is the king of schlocky salesmanship. He is highly intelligent, and in his time, especially after the enactment of the Cuban Embargo, he was a major force in the cigar industry. I've often wondered if CI and others ineptly try to mimic Lew. The "If you can't beat them, join them" mentality might be at work here.
edit for spelling
Lew Rothman is the king of schlocky salesmanship. He is highly intelligent, and in his time, especially after the enactment of the Cuban Embargo, he was a major force in the cigar industry. I've often wondered if CI and others ineptly try to mimic Lew. The "If you can't beat them, join them" mentality might be at work here.
edit for spelling
rectifythis
CP; may cause dependency
I have always found these types of selling angles a turn off. Just tell me about the cigar and leave it at that. It's like listening to an obnoxious woman that won't shut her yapper. Give me the meat and leave out the fluff. If you spoke like that to me in person, I guarantee it would be the last time we spoke.
lurch
I.Y.A.O.Y.A.S.
This is exactly why I tend to stay away from the "super-distributors". I get the feeling like they're trying to pull a fast one over my eyes every time I open their catalog. I like to stick with the BOTLs of this site and smaller retailers like Silo Cigars and Al.
chainer
Member
Wilkey,
I have an extra cool card, it has your name on it. But in all honesty, what mag now-a-days doesn't proclaim things boldly, like "We Must be Insane!!!" or "We have lost our minds!". I see it from every mag I am listed on, and since I've started smoking this year, that seems the uniform scheme. To me, that is what I've always seen... It is interesting to know that these companies were not always full of themselves.
Worse as in if there was no mention of the incident or apology at all, aka pretending it never happened at all.
I think you might still be a tad upset that Sathya Levin snubbed your request over at CF that "He come to Cigar Pass and justify his actions!" and said snub is coloring your posts in this thread.
Like Doc, this incident ruined a few personal fond memories of Holt's for me. The sincere sounding apology is (at least for me) a small salve on an open wound.
And I am happy they went to the effort to make it.
Shawn
Yeahthatsme
Active Member
I'll agree with you on that one.
Heck, I was tempted on the royal flush sampler myself until I read this in the description:
"It's rich, earthy and so incredibly limited that our homeboy Pete Johnson had to ransack his own personal stash just to get us these cigars! True story.". It's just poor form on their part, I'll stick with the sellers and vendors here.
ironpeddler
Ye Old Newbie
I threw it away without looking at it.
Like LilBastage said and I said when this whole Padilla thing first came out, I don't particularly like the way the new copy is written. I'm no longer their target market, the younger smokers in the 18-38 demographic are. It's not just Holt's, but a large number of big box sellers are subscribing to this tact....they are bringing MTV to the Cigar Culture....where it's cool to 'dis' people publicly and get in everyone's face over nonsense. Listen, I'm from the 60s generation where we questioned established protocols in our government and society....but I'd like to think we had a purpose....this new tact is to tear down respect for the sake of nothing....mainly because they have created the illusion that "it's cool and funny."
Wilkey mentioned that we are not Holt's intended customer base in regards to the apology and he hit the nail on the head. We are a small percentage of 'shipped to' customers they have. But think of this...what took them so long to issue this apology? I would venture to guess that most younger (not all!) people either didn't pick-up on the fact that Mr. Padilla was disrespected WHEN THEY READ THE COPY thinking it was comical or never knew about it in the first place because they didn't read that issue. Now, if they issue an apology, this may alert more people who never knew of this whole fiasco. Add in the economy, where people are spending less money on luxury items and their overall sales are down anyway....further add that Holt's may attribute some of these lost sales to the cigar community uprising and BINGO....better to be safe than sorry...'let's go for the sympathy vote and see what happens, we go nothing to loose.'
Then you have the Manufacturers thinking..."If they did this to a gentleman like Ernesto Padilla, are we next in this new format of advertising?" I'm sure Holt's phones were ringing asking that question of them.
Every company tries a completely new advertising campaign to stimulate sales and create new customers, but to do it using this new MTV approach I think was a huge gamble on their part with more to loose than could ever be gained. Why not stick to your time honored traditions to get you over this cyclical economic hump? Look at what Cadillac did, they went with Led Zeppelin's music, flashy TV commercials showing younger people and gained a whole new generation of buyers...but at the same time, may have lost a few of the old traditional senior generation buyers in it's wake.....that's inevitable when things shift to a new demographic. Maybe some of us here are part of that group in these new marketing schemes. I'm also sure there is a large number of CP members that don't subscribe to this line of thinking and didn't object to Holt's copy to begin with and will gladly accept their apology now....and that's OK.
As my 92yo Mother has always said to me..."to each his own Gary, don't judge."
....but I can take my money elsewhere.
Like LilBastage said and I said when this whole Padilla thing first came out, I don't particularly like the way the new copy is written. I'm no longer their target market, the younger smokers in the 18-38 demographic are. It's not just Holt's, but a large number of big box sellers are subscribing to this tact....they are bringing MTV to the Cigar Culture....where it's cool to 'dis' people publicly and get in everyone's face over nonsense. Listen, I'm from the 60s generation where we questioned established protocols in our government and society....but I'd like to think we had a purpose....this new tact is to tear down respect for the sake of nothing....mainly because they have created the illusion that "it's cool and funny."
Wilkey mentioned that we are not Holt's intended customer base in regards to the apology and he hit the nail on the head. We are a small percentage of 'shipped to' customers they have. But think of this...what took them so long to issue this apology? I would venture to guess that most younger (not all!) people either didn't pick-up on the fact that Mr. Padilla was disrespected WHEN THEY READ THE COPY thinking it was comical or never knew about it in the first place because they didn't read that issue. Now, if they issue an apology, this may alert more people who never knew of this whole fiasco. Add in the economy, where people are spending less money on luxury items and their overall sales are down anyway....further add that Holt's may attribute some of these lost sales to the cigar community uprising and BINGO....better to be safe than sorry...'let's go for the sympathy vote and see what happens, we go nothing to loose.'
Then you have the Manufacturers thinking..."If they did this to a gentleman like Ernesto Padilla, are we next in this new format of advertising?" I'm sure Holt's phones were ringing asking that question of them.
Every company tries a completely new advertising campaign to stimulate sales and create new customers, but to do it using this new MTV approach I think was a huge gamble on their part with more to loose than could ever be gained. Why not stick to your time honored traditions to get you over this cyclical economic hump? Look at what Cadillac did, they went with Led Zeppelin's music, flashy TV commercials showing younger people and gained a whole new generation of buyers...but at the same time, may have lost a few of the old traditional senior generation buyers in it's wake.....that's inevitable when things shift to a new demographic. Maybe some of us here are part of that group in these new marketing schemes. I'm also sure there is a large number of CP members that don't subscribe to this line of thinking and didn't object to Holt's copy to begin with and will gladly accept their apology now....and that's OK.
As my 92yo Mother has always said to me..."to each his own Gary, don't judge."
....but I can take my money elsewhere.
Interesting!
I suppose if I told you that that did not and does not figure at all in my thoughts on the matter you could either accept that or continue to believe this is true. Whatever the case, I believe my interpretation would be reasonable whether it came from me, you, or any member of CP.
In fact, I had very low expectations that he would reply and so it was tossed out almost as a futile gesture from the start. Perhaps this is emblematic of my general disillusionment with big box shops and flash-bang advertisements. Gary pretty effectively captured my thoughts and with greater verve and context.
Wilkey
Eshaw99
Just livin' the dream
A good bet, but a dying breed I'm afraid...
Devil Doc
When Death smiles, Corpsmen smile back
Yup, your local B$M is a good bet. Yesterday I went to my local, and asked the clerk if they had any Tat. Blacks. "Yea we do he replied, but don't buy them they're not worth the money." Now what's the chance of Holt's, CI, Famous and JR telling you that?
Doc.
Doc.
LilBastage
Meat is murder! Tasty, tasty murder.
If I went to my local and asked the same question I'd get one of two responses: "What's a Tat Black?" or "EAST COAST CIGAR! EAST COAST CIGAR! You'll never see them anywhere else! We have Puros Indios, they're the same! Very good! Very good!"
If you say its true then I believe you. You have no emotional baggage in regards to Holt's. I and a few others do. So I am happy to see the apology regardless of who it was meant for.
Maybe it was meant for me...
sack
'From man's sweat and God's love, beer came to be.
Damn, look away for a bit and look what i missed. Never really bothered with Holts anyway. Good riddance!