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General Motors?

Delta

New Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2008
Messages
148
What do you all think about the current situation GM and the rest of the American automotive industry is in?

Do you think buying an American vehicle helps our economy more?

I love to talk about this and hear other peoples thoughts. I did not search since this changes way to much to make a thread from the past worthwhile.

And also, what car do you drive?

I drive a 2003 Honda Civic.

I think GM is not to big to fail and should have filed chp. 11 a year ago.
 
What do you all think about the current situation GM and the rest of the American automotive industry is in?

Do you think buying an American vehicle helps our economy more?

I love to talk about this and hear other peoples thoughts. I did not search since this changes way to much to make a thread from the past worthwhile.

And also, what car do you drive?

I drive a 2003 Honda Civic.

I think GM is not to big to fail and should have filed chp. 11 a year ago.


You are new here and we do not discuss politics.

Unfortunately a subject like buy American could turn into one of those political discussions.

My 2 centavos!
 
I drive an American made Ford F-150 SuperCrew Lariat with a 5.4L Tritan gas guzzeling hog of an engine that I fill up weekly! And love it!!!

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I work in insurance, and our adjusters say the value on SUVs and trucks are falling so fast that KBB and NADA can not keep up. Oddly enough, I still have one or two people call in each week to add there new Tahoe to there auto policy.

If GM could get more of the smaller, fuel efficient cars into the market (like others have done) they might be able to pull out of the slump, but they can't produce them here and sell them for the same price they are making them for.

I was raised on Chevrolet. My Grandfather and Father both have/had Chevy trucks. I had a Chevy SUV, and had to trade it in due to gas. When I traded it in, I found out the value had dropped $3,000 from just 4 months back.

BTW, I now drive a 2005 VW Beetle Convertible.
 
The big structural problem with GM (and the rest of the american auto industry) is the ongoing issue with pensions and the like. I seem to recall a Malcolm Gladwell column in which he pointed out that, with the stream of early-retirements and buyout packages over the last 30 years, plus the declining size of GM in general, every GM worker supports the pension and/or health care obligations of 8 former GM workers. Most of GMs profits, as a result, come from finance and other subsidiary operations; actually making cars is close to revenue neutral.

The irony of this situation is that the UAW offered to take care of health care and pension management in-house, but GM (quickly copied by Ford and Chrysler) declined. (In the 1980's, this decision probably seemed like genius, given that the big automakers raided surpluses in their own pension funds to add to the corporate bottom line; today, now that the pension funds are still underfunded despite 5 years of trying, not so much.)

This isn't to say that GM and other big auto should be freed of pension and health obligations (ie, a metaphorical get out of jail free card), which it made in good faith, but to point out that long-ago decisions had consequences which today's GM is paying for. Like the current negative savings rate, it represented a massive transfer of wealth from the future to the present.

As for GM right now .. they're currently in a negative cash flow situation. They're not bankrupt, and probably couldn't have filed for chapter 11 years ago (in that they did not default on debt, violate debt covenants, or come to the table with negative owner's equity, a precondition for bankruptcy filing), but they're eating their reserves, eating their owner's equity, and this will eventually come to an end. There will be a GM in 50 years, but it's going to be a much smaller GM. And the existing shareholders will probably get shafted, since they come last (in case of common stock, next to last in case of preferred) in the order of claims on assets.

In the short term, they will probably acquire Chrysler in a swap for GMAC, although I'm not sure if it's a big win for them. On the other hand, GMAC (since it depends on the free flow of corporate paper) is probably an albatross around their necks, at least for the next little while. They may also be able to renegotiate dependent obligations with UAW as part of the purchase, which could conceivably be a major win and major change to their economic situation.

Last but not least, what car do I drive? My first major purchase with my wife was a new 2006 Hyundai Elantra. The second was a couch. Usually this happens in reverse, but we've always been a little bit different.
 
I have a 2000 Chevy Malibu & a 1998 F-150.My previous truck was a 91 Chevy S-10 that had 250,000 miles on it when the tranny blew apart.I drive them till theres nothing left of them before I get another.The F-150 has 185,000 miles on it & the Malibu has 127,000.
My wife drives a 2005 Pontiac GTP.
 
As for Buy American, there's both an economics argument for and against it. (Not getting in to the politics). Pro is that money recirculates within the nation-state or economic region (as many "American" cars are wholly or partly made in Canada or Mexico), preventing the drain of capital. Con is that consumers tend to pay more for the branding, but do not receive additional benefits; it also subsidizes inefficient local industry and prevents the development of economies of scale.

For example, Sweden makes Volvos and Germany makes BMWs, cars which compete in roughly the same market space, but Germans buy Volvos and Swedes buy BMWs. It is more efficient, though, for them to trade with each other rather than develop a local exact equivalent, and therefore generates more wealth for both nations. Paul Krugman just won the Economics Nobel for his work along these lines in international trade theory.

In other words, the conventional wisdom among economists is that buying local, in the absence of other advantages to the product, is not a real advantage to the country as a whole. As for the political argument, whatever floats your boat. Although I could point out that most cars sold in North America are built in North America, whether they bear a Japanese, Korean, North American, or European badge.
 
I haven't been following the whole GM deal, so I can't comment on that. Growing up in Michigan, though, it was almost thought of as a sin to drive a foreign car. Nowadays the lines are so blurred, I don't think it matters. I still couldn't bring myself to buy an Asian car, but I do own two German cars: a Dodge Durango and a Volkswagen Jetta. :)
 
I haven't been following the whole GM deal, so I can't comment on that. Growing up in Michigan, though, it was almost thought of as a sin to drive a foreign car. Nowadays the lines are so blurred, I don't think it matters. I still couldn't bring myself to buy an Asian car, but I do own two German cars: a Dodge Durango and a Volkswagen Jetta. :)

I was in Detroit last weekend for a wedding, and I felt a little like an oddball with our 4-runner. Well, that and the out of state plates.

But I can say this, we went to the Ford factory tour (The Rouge Factory) and they were cranking them out (F-150s) and we were told they were getting ready to add another shift worth of workers to the plant.

The Henry Ford museum was pretty cool too...
 
I haven't been following the whole GM deal, so I can't comment on that. Growing up in Michigan, though, it was almost thought of as a sin to drive a foreign car. Nowadays the lines are so blurred, I don't think it matters. I still couldn't bring myself to buy an Asian car, but I do own two German cars: a Dodge Durango and a Volkswagen Jetta. :)

I was in Detroit last weekend for a wedding, and I felt a little like an oddball with our 4-runner. Well, that and the out of state plates.

But I can say this, we went to the Ford factory tour (The Rouge Factory) and they were cranking them out (F-150s) and we were told they were getting ready to add another shift worth of workers to the plant.

The Henry Ford museum was pretty cool too...

Yeah, I just heard on NPR that Ford is bringing back 1000 workers to increase its F-150 production. Although car purchases were down 30% last month overall, SUVs and trucks saw an increase. The pundits I listened to seemed to think it was the recent drop in gas prices that had the positive effect on truck sales.
 
My last three vehicles: Ford Explorer, GMC Envoy and Chevrolet Trailblazer. I like to buy American vehicles when I can. That being said, my wife's company has a fleet of Toyota hybrids which is a change because they always bought American cars before the hybrid options came around. I agree with whoever it was that said that GM needs to get focused on more fuel efficient vehicles.
 
I have a 2000 Chevy Malibu & a 1998 F-150.My previous truck was a 91 Chevy S-10 that had 250,000 miles on it when the tranny blew apart.I drive them till theres nothing left of them before I get another.The F-150 has 185,000 miles on it & the Malibu has 127,000.
My wife drives a 2005 Pontiac GTP.

My 1998 S-10 has 150,000 miles on it and gets a consistent 29 mpg. Wife drives a Silverado.

GM is hoping Volt with be a winner http://gm-volt.com.
 
You are new here and we do not discuss politics.

Unfortunately a subject like buy American could turn into one of those political discussions.

My 2 centavos!

I think they all put you on 'ignore'!


No they have listened and have stated what they drive and what they have seen for themselves.

You are now on triple secret probation. You now will be relegated to view only threads about cello on or cello off, do I store the cigars in the boxes or take them out and how to salt test my meter.
 
I only buy GM, but my views are greatly slanted as my grandfather worked on the assembly lines for 20+ years at the Linden NJ plant. He'd come back from the grave to whoop my ass if he ever caught wind of me driving anything else. We've got a Pontiac Grand Prix & a Pontiac Sunfire.
 
My family used to be nothing but Chevrolet, but we have driven nothing but Nissans the past decade or so. I have a 2003 Nissan Sentra and a 2009 Nissan Xtrerra and my wife has a 2005 Sentra.
 
I have an 04 Suburban, and 07 Tahoe and an 01 PR Cruiser. America needs and auto industry and GM is the leader. Other countries support thier auto industry and we should as well. GM has a ton of autos getting good mileage, For some reason Americans do not view them as being a good value. I am not sure why. I guess we are remembering things like the Chevette.
 
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