ParaGod
Semper Fi
Sam you are damn hilarious. :thumbs:
-
Hi Guest - Come check out all of the new CP Merch Shop! Now you can support CigarPass buy purchasing hats, apparel, and more...
Click here to visit! here...
For all the nay-sayers out there
- Thread starter DaveWF
- Start date
Allofus123
Here ducky, ducky, ducky!
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2001
- Messages
- 3,869
Dave, I'm not a bandwagon type of guy. I judge a person by his actions and words. The three quotes above seem to have a theme..... being a true BOTL is not about "me" or "you".
I had already decided some time ago, after you had told us you were quiting cigars, what your reasoning for staying here was. I would be shocked if after taking out your moderating post if there was more than a handful of cigar related post contributed to the board by you. That in and of itself is not a problem but when the majority of your post seem to be about your "business" then I feel it crosses over that fine line and defines, to me, why you are here. I've always ignored it as it appeared to be tolerated by Rod. No sweat off my back..... just never seemed appropriate.
I totally agree with Matt's post. Very well said.
I never put all the issues in Neal's post together until recently... I guess I just wasn't paying attention. I will say that I did recall many of the issues and have formed my opinion based on the FACTs as I've seen them now. Good post Brother Matt... :thumbs:
Aloha,
Wade
Aloha,
Wade
Ok, I've been working on a reply to SamClemmons accusational post for a while. It seems quite obvious that there are people out there that will never be pleased despite anything I do. For all of those.... well you know where you can go stick it... :sneaky:
For the rest of you that do not just blindly followed the masses, here is my version of everything that was brought up. Keep in mind that everything that was referred to in SamClemmon's post is based in fact. I do not contest that. However most of it has his own hateful spin put on it. Let me elaborate with my version of everything he posted.....
Yeah, I did that :lookup:. This happened probably around a year ago - maybe more. I don't have the time to look up every detail here. I don't remember my exact wording as to whether I proclaimed "equal or better" or just plain "better" replacements. The simple matter is that the "unspoken" rule is that you always put equal or better then you take out. I simply made it official in the rules. Yeah - that was my own fault. If I did, in fact, word it as "replaced with better", well that was my screwup. I was properly chastised for it at the time, and I let the pass disappear into oblivion.... or so I thought until SC started his witch hunt. The "one cigar other then mine" was a rule that I though of at the time because I was starting it with a great number of, as SC put it, low to mid-range smokes. I did that becasue at the time, the only active passes were all high-end - premium smokes. I was trying to make a pass for the non-cigarsnobs of the time.
Here's another classic SamClemmons spin on the truth. The Fuente DVD pif had been active for a while and seemed to be petering off. I had just recently bought a DVD-burner and thought it would be a nice gesture to allow people to have their own copy of the DVD instead of having to watch it once and never see it again. My exact quote was:
"I wouldn't mind getting in on the next round of this.
Not to cause trouble or anything, but I have a DVD burner.... I could make people their own copy if they were interested...?
Dave"
Nothing was said about me profiting from this. As a matter of fact, the only thing I said about the cigars was this:
"Alright, I got it. Now, if I go making 10 "backup" copies for my brothers, does that mean I have to send out 10 cigars as well? Can we have some sort of minor rule change for folks that may not want to see the original?
Just a thought
Dave "
The only thing I was asking was whether I had to send out cigars with the DVD or if I could send out the DVD alone. The immediate reponse was from Triple_D:
"I think people should send you gars for making them a copy to cover the DVD-R and your time. Since you made 10 I would suggest sending the original back to SSAL with a stick. As far as that goes I want another copy of it and will send gars to reimburse you. Thanks "
I never asked for payment like SC claimed. It was suggested by a true BOTL.
Now, as far as the $1 and 10 seconds... it obvious SamClemmons has no knowlege on this matter at all. Granted, it didn't cost me much, but lets add it up...
DVD $1
Case: $negligable, but still a factor
Custom printed label: $negligable, but still a factor
padded mailer: $0.95
postage: about $1
Sure, it's not a lot - but well over double SC humorous claims. Also, it takes me approx 15 minutes to burn a dvd and print the custom label. Hardly the 10 seconds he spouted off.
BTW, for anyone interesed, they can see the conversation as it really happened without SC's spin on it... http://www.cigarpass.com/forums/index.php?...0&hl=fuente+dvd
I'm still not quite sure what he's referring to here. But it seems pretty clear that if I ever stated there was not going to be a contest, then why am I being criticized for not having a contest? DUH!
Can someone please clue me in on what he's talking about here so I can provide a better explanation?
Refill Ink Cartridges?? Ok, now he's just making stuff up! I never once made a post even remotly like that. It's not a service that I offer, nor one that I use. This is just ludicrous!
The Norton Firewall & Virus protection claim - yeah I did that. I offered the following deal:
http://www.cigarpass.com/forumsipb/index.php?showtopic=7536
I think it was quite clear that I was offering two packages. One was just Norton Anti-Virus. The other was Norton Internet Security that INCLUDES Norton Anti-Virus.
I was unaware that you could purchase them for less on eBay - but then again, I was unaware that it was a crime against nature to sell something for more then you can find it for on eBay and even worse, to actually make a little profit for your business <GASP!>
Despite SC, I had a good response from the brothers here at CP and other online boards, so I was able to make this offer:
http://www.cigarpass.com/forumsipb/index.php?showtopic=7953
It seems quite clear again that, first of all, I was not selling them separately. Norton Internet Security INCLUDES Norton Anti-Virus. I thought I made it quite clear that it was a package deal and I was not offering it separately.
Since he ended with with re-stating his claim about the wrong room, let me reiterate... It's not the "Trade Room". It's the "Buy/Sell/Trade & Group Purchases" forum. You're allowed to post thing for sale in there. There was never any post about retailers not being allowed to post.
As far as Moki paying money to his staff - I NEVER KNEW. I certainly can't be blamed for something that I was in the dark about, can I? Oh wait, that's right, SamClemmons is involved - I get blamed for EVERYTHING. Sheesh.
By the way, for anyone interested, there's a new deal being offered from the same company for free handbags. Check out that site for more information if you're interested. In regards to his quote "Since I found it I'm first" - well... yeah. I brought the idea here. Why shouldn't I be first in line? It was my idea. This isn't being greedy or anything - it's just common sense.
"Free Domain Names"....? Once again, SC is making a bold faced lie and hoping his popularity will get him out of it. I never offer free domain names. I stated in my offer:
"If you need a domain name (www.yourname.com) I can set you up with the best prices I know of - $5-$10 depending on the domain type you want (.com .net, .info. .us, etc.). If you don't want to spend any money, I'll include a subdomain free. (http://yourname.greatcomputerservice.com). "
I wasn't selling you the domain name - I would lead you to the best prices I was aware of. As I even stated - a domain name isn't necessary, so you could in fact have the plan completely for free. Everything can be seen here:
http://www.cigarpass.com/forums/index.php?...8842&hl=webhost
The link: http://www.cigarpass.com/forums/index.php?...7912&hl=picture
What I was asking for is not uncommon. There are thousands of web site scripts available today. CigarPass itself is run on one of them, the "Invision Power Board". Many scripts are free, some are not. I was looking to create a site for fun, and was not looking to spend any money on it. I wasn't asking for anyone to create the script for me, just point me in the right direction. As it turns out, there is a script that did exactly what I was looking for. It's called "MailGust" - and guess what, it was free. So gee, maybe my request wasn't so outrageous after all, now was it?
So, I think that about covers it. It seems pretty apprent that my reputation has been thoroughly trashed here, so most of you will look at this as not give it a second thought. But to those of you that can read this without bias, I think this clearly shows that there are certain members here (I'm not just talking about SamClemmons now) that are just hateful spiteful people. They use their influence as FOGs to try and turn everything to their way of thinking, regardless of what's right or wrong. With them it's "My way or F*&% You". I'm sure you'll see some humorous and some vicious replies to this. That's fine. I've gotten out what I needed to say.
Let me close with this.... with the exception of the failed pass and the free stuff sites, NO ONE - not one single person ever complained about anything listed here until SC made his post and a few choice members blindly backed him up. If anyone had an issue with anything here, they could have PM'd me or even asked me outright on the board about it. No one did.
Don't be a sheep and follow the so-called leaders blindly. Use your brain and be your own person - don't fall into the trap of "piling on" to the next poor sap just because one of the FOGs denounces him. Make up your own mind on the matter and don't be afraid to disagree with anyone. It's a public board - it's your right to not be pushed into someone else's crusade.
I'll still be around, but as I'm sure many of you are aware, I quitting cigars due to the cost of health insurance of a tobacco user. As a few people have told me, that makes me not as important around here, so I'll just stick in the background and jump in from time to time.
Thanks for reading,
David Frank
For the rest of you that do not just blindly followed the masses, here is my version of everything that was brought up. Keep in mind that everything that was referred to in SamClemmon's post is based in fact. I do not contest that. However most of it has his own hateful spin put on it. Let me elaborate with my version of everything he posted.....
Yeah, I did that :lookup:. This happened probably around a year ago - maybe more. I don't have the time to look up every detail here. I don't remember my exact wording as to whether I proclaimed "equal or better" or just plain "better" replacements. The simple matter is that the "unspoken" rule is that you always put equal or better then you take out. I simply made it official in the rules. Yeah - that was my own fault. If I did, in fact, word it as "replaced with better", well that was my screwup. I was properly chastised for it at the time, and I let the pass disappear into oblivion.... or so I thought until SC started his witch hunt. The "one cigar other then mine" was a rule that I though of at the time because I was starting it with a great number of, as SC put it, low to mid-range smokes. I did that becasue at the time, the only active passes were all high-end - premium smokes. I was trying to make a pass for the non-cigarsnobs of the time.
Here's another classic SamClemmons spin on the truth. The Fuente DVD pif had been active for a while and seemed to be petering off. I had just recently bought a DVD-burner and thought it would be a nice gesture to allow people to have their own copy of the DVD instead of having to watch it once and never see it again. My exact quote was:
"I wouldn't mind getting in on the next round of this.
Not to cause trouble or anything, but I have a DVD burner.... I could make people their own copy if they were interested...?
Dave"
Nothing was said about me profiting from this. As a matter of fact, the only thing I said about the cigars was this:
"Alright, I got it. Now, if I go making 10 "backup" copies for my brothers, does that mean I have to send out 10 cigars as well? Can we have some sort of minor rule change for folks that may not want to see the original?
Just a thought
Dave "
The only thing I was asking was whether I had to send out cigars with the DVD or if I could send out the DVD alone. The immediate reponse was from Triple_D:
"I think people should send you gars for making them a copy to cover the DVD-R and your time. Since you made 10 I would suggest sending the original back to SSAL with a stick. As far as that goes I want another copy of it and will send gars to reimburse you. Thanks "
I never asked for payment like SC claimed. It was suggested by a true BOTL.
Now, as far as the $1 and 10 seconds... it obvious SamClemmons has no knowlege on this matter at all. Granted, it didn't cost me much, but lets add it up...
DVD $1
Case: $negligable, but still a factor
Custom printed label: $negligable, but still a factor
padded mailer: $0.95
postage: about $1
Sure, it's not a lot - but well over double SC humorous claims. Also, it takes me approx 15 minutes to burn a dvd and print the custom label. Hardly the 10 seconds he spouted off.
BTW, for anyone interesed, they can see the conversation as it really happened without SC's spin on it... http://www.cigarpass.com/forums/index.php?...0&hl=fuente+dvd
I'm still not quite sure what he's referring to here. But it seems pretty clear that if I ever stated there was not going to be a contest, then why am I being criticized for not having a contest? DUH!
Can someone please clue me in on what he's talking about here so I can provide a better explanation?
Ok, first of all, I already explained that I was not a cigar retailer, thus did not think it was appropriate to post in the "Hot Cigar Deals" forum. It seemed more appropriate to post in the "Buy/Sell/Trade & Group Purchases" forum. See? SELL is even in the title. No one complained or commented about it until SCs post. I was unaware that I was doing anything wrong. If someone had just said something instead of building up their hate level then I could have rectified the matter. As a matter of fact, I still maintain that, based on the forum description, there was nothing wrong with where I posted it. The only mention of "retailers" is "This forum is also open to Retail Cigar Shops..." in the description of the "Hot Cigar Deals" forum. It doesn't say anything about retailers ONLY being able to post in the "Hot Cigar Deals". As a matter of fact, with a quick search I found 18 posts from MrJerry seeling his coffe in the "Buy/Sell/Trade & Group Purchases" forum. How many complaints has SC made about those? NONE! He's not pissed that the offers were posted in that forum, he's pissed that I made those posts in that forum.
Refill Ink Cartridges?? Ok, now he's just making stuff up! I never once made a post even remotly like that. It's not a service that I offer, nor one that I use. This is just ludicrous!
The Norton Firewall & Virus protection claim - yeah I did that. I offered the following deal:
http://www.cigarpass.com/forumsipb/index.php?showtopic=7536
I think it was quite clear that I was offering two packages. One was just Norton Anti-Virus. The other was Norton Internet Security that INCLUDES Norton Anti-Virus.
I was unaware that you could purchase them for less on eBay - but then again, I was unaware that it was a crime against nature to sell something for more then you can find it for on eBay and even worse, to actually make a little profit for your business <GASP!>
Despite SC, I had a good response from the brothers here at CP and other online boards, so I was able to make this offer:
http://www.cigarpass.com/forumsipb/index.php?showtopic=7953
It seems quite clear again that, first of all, I was not selling them separately. Norton Internet Security INCLUDES Norton Anti-Virus. I thought I made it quite clear that it was a package deal and I was not offering it separately.
Since he ended with with re-stating his claim about the wrong room, let me reiterate... It's not the "Trade Room". It's the "Buy/Sell/Trade & Group Purchases" forum. You're allowed to post thing for sale in there. There was never any post about retailers not being allowed to post.
First off all, I never said I hated my logo. I asked for some criticism on an ad I had designed. Ok, it was pretty crappy to begin with - that's why I came here for advice. I am unaware of ever having offered a contest. I think SC is just spouting out lies hoping no one else will notice he's a hate mongerer. I had at one point asked if people would be interested in a contest - there was on interest so I let the matter drop.
As far as Moki paying money to his staff - I NEVER KNEW. I certainly can't be blamed for something that I was in the dark about, can I? Oh wait, that's right, SamClemmons is involved - I get blamed for EVERYTHING. Sheesh.
I assume he's referring to the Freeipods, freeflatscreens, and freedesktoppcs websites. First of all, I never "scammed" anyone. The disclaimer he refers to is valid. I stated from the beginning that any email address you used to sign up with would receive a lot of spam. So I advised everyone to use a "disposable" email address. I don't consider that a disclaimer, I consider that good advice. As I explained in the post about the free stuff sites, it's not just going to fall into your lap - you'll have to do a little work for it and sign up for a trial offer. There's no scam involved. Thousands of people have already gotten their items, and thousands more will still get theirs. I have seen a number of forums create what are called "conga lines" for these deals. Once the first person has their deal completed, then the next person in line collects all the referrals, and so on down the line. I had hoped to start one here before it was shot down. A great example of this can be found at http://www.gratisoffersguide.com/
By the way, for anyone interested, there's a new deal being offered from the same company for free handbags. Check out that site for more information if you're interested. In regards to his quote "Since I found it I'm first" - well... yeah. I brought the idea here. Why shouldn't I be first in line? It was my idea. This isn't being greedy or anything - it's just common sense.
Ok, once again SC is spouting his ignorance. First of all, bandwidth has nothing to do with an ISP account - it is associated with a web hosting account. It's not free - I don't get it free, and I don't have an unlimited supply. I pay for this from my provider to include in my web hosting plans. It's not a business expense - I pay for it. I offered a plan that I sell through DWF Computers for $35 for anyone that signed up for one of the free offers listed above. That plan includes 50 MB of web storage and 1 GB of monthly bandwidth. It is not free for me, I have to pay for it. Now sure, I don't pay $35 for it. If I did and sold it for the same amount, I'd quicly go out of business. So I'm sorry if I actually try to make a profit in my business SC, but without it, any company would quicly go bankrupt. So sure, it doesn't cost me $35, but I do incure a cost and am paying for that out of my pocket for anyone that wanted to sign up.
"Free Domain Names"....? Once again, SC is making a bold faced lie and hoping his popularity will get him out of it. I never offer free domain names. I stated in my offer:
"If you need a domain name (www.yourname.com) I can set you up with the best prices I know of - $5-$10 depending on the domain type you want (.com .net, .info. .us, etc.). If you don't want to spend any money, I'll include a subdomain free. (http://yourname.greatcomputerservice.com). "
I wasn't selling you the domain name - I would lead you to the best prices I was aware of. As I even stated - a domain name isn't necessary, so you could in fact have the plan completely for free. Everything can be seen here:
http://www.cigarpass.com/forums/index.php?...8842&hl=webhost
Gee, I wasn't aware it was against the rules to ask if anyone had skills in a particular field. Well screw me for even thinking about asking.
Once again, this is taken completely out of context and hist SC little spin to make me look like the bad guy. Here's the whole story...
The link: http://www.cigarpass.com/forums/index.php?...7912&hl=picture
What I was asking for is not uncommon. There are thousands of web site scripts available today. CigarPass itself is run on one of them, the "Invision Power Board". Many scripts are free, some are not. I was looking to create a site for fun, and was not looking to spend any money on it. I wasn't asking for anyone to create the script for me, just point me in the right direction. As it turns out, there is a script that did exactly what I was looking for. It's called "MailGust" - and guess what, it was free. So gee, maybe my request wasn't so outrageous after all, now was it?
So, I think that about covers it. It seems pretty apprent that my reputation has been thoroughly trashed here, so most of you will look at this as not give it a second thought. But to those of you that can read this without bias, I think this clearly shows that there are certain members here (I'm not just talking about SamClemmons now) that are just hateful spiteful people. They use their influence as FOGs to try and turn everything to their way of thinking, regardless of what's right or wrong. With them it's "My way or F*&% You". I'm sure you'll see some humorous and some vicious replies to this. That's fine. I've gotten out what I needed to say.
Let me close with this.... with the exception of the failed pass and the free stuff sites, NO ONE - not one single person ever complained about anything listed here until SC made his post and a few choice members blindly backed him up. If anyone had an issue with anything here, they could have PM'd me or even asked me outright on the board about it. No one did.
Don't be a sheep and follow the so-called leaders blindly. Use your brain and be your own person - don't fall into the trap of "piling on" to the next poor sap just because one of the FOGs denounces him. Make up your own mind on the matter and don't be afraid to disagree with anyone. It's a public board - it's your right to not be pushed into someone else's crusade.
I'll still be around, but as I'm sure many of you are aware, I quitting cigars due to the cost of health insurance of a tobacco user. As a few people have told me, that makes me not as important around here, so I'll just stick in the background and jump in from time to time.
Thanks for reading,
David Frank
No, my moderator status was removed a few days ago. It was not based on these problems, but on the fact that Rod was deciding to go back to a "self-moderating" board.cvmfour said:
I still have rights to move passes, but I am unsure if that was intentional, or an oversight when my rights were removed.
Dave
moki
el Presidente
I still maintain that it is wrong to be selling or giving away pirated copies of the Fuente DVD at all, never-mind what you charged people for it.DaveWF said:
Lee
Well-Known Member
Dave, you can try to turn it around on SamClemmons, myself or whoever, but one thing remains the same regardless: You are here not as a true BOTL but to capitalize from them. That's not ethical on a cigar board. You also could have started to address these things one at a time as they came up, rather than wait until your credibilty was in question.
I personally don't hate anyone on this board. I just don't have much respect for a few of them, yourself included. The straw that broke the camels back for me was that I used you for hosting and informed you of my intentions and then you tried to threaten me with some TOS issue that wasn't going to fly anyway. You know and I know it! If it had of, the board wouldn't be up and running. So, all I can surmise from this is that I will not being doing business with you again.
I just see this as more excuses but hey, what do I know? People can see it for what they want!
Adios!
Lee
I personally don't hate anyone on this board. I just don't have much respect for a few of them, yourself included. The straw that broke the camels back for me was that I used you for hosting and informed you of my intentions and then you tried to threaten me with some TOS issue that wasn't going to fly anyway. You know and I know it! If it had of, the board wouldn't be up and running. So, all I can surmise from this is that I will not being doing business with you again.
I just see this as more excuses but hey, what do I know? People can see it for what they want!
Adios!
Lee
BigDaddyFink
New Member
Wow. Big shocker here. Dave? Go, figure. Never woulda thunk it.
BigDaddyFink
New Member
What? Another flip-flop from you Dave? I thought I was..what was it you said again??...."formally ignored" by you? Oh well, whatever pithy thing you have to say to me, it's worth nothing more than a roll of Charmin to me, and just about everyone else. You proved your self-worth long ago Dave.DaveWF said:Hey look! The original hate mongerer decided to show up!
I rest my case.BigDaddyFink said:What? Another flip-flop from you Dave? I thought I was..what was it you said again??...."formally ignored" by you? Oh well, whatever pithy thing you have to say to me, it's worth nothing more than a roll of Charmin to me, and just about everyone else. You proved your self-worth long ago Dave.DaveWF said:Hey look! The original hate mongerer decided to show up!
Lee
Well-Known Member
Pitiful....... ???DaveWF said:Hey look! The original hate mongerer decided to show up!
BigDaddyFink
New Member
By the way...not only for whatever troubles those of you have had with computer problems related to dear-old brother Dave's so-called "business," these guys take the pirating and bootlegging of media (violation of copyright) quite seriously as well. So, feel free to pass along whatever you feel necessary:
Federal Trade Commission
Anyone interested in getting specifics on reporting specifics on copyright violation, PM me.
Federal Trade Commission
Anyone interested in getting specifics on reporting specifics on copyright violation, PM me.
BigDaddyFink
New Member
Your case was rested long-ago sir. You only continue to dig yourself deeper and deeper.DaveWF said:I rest my case.BigDaddyFink said:What? Another flip-flop from you Dave? I thought I was..what was it you said again??...."formally ignored" by you? Oh well, whatever pithy thing you have to say to me, it's worth nothing more than a roll of Charmin to me, and just about everyone else. You proved your self-worth long ago Dave.DaveWF said:Hey look! The original hate mongerer decided to show up!
dixieland_conjunction
If it isn't dixieland, it isn't REAL jazz
Big Daddy Fink:
You'll notice in all this I never said Dave didn't have a right to be here. I don't agree with his motives and thought they should be called out. I've also been here long enough to know what I'm talking about. Yes it's true that in your tiny time here you've picked up on some what what I had problems with. Congratulations :thumbs:
However, with that said, you have even less credibility on here than Dave. So STFU! You're a joke.
Cheers,
Dixie
You'll notice in all this I never said Dave didn't have a right to be here. I don't agree with his motives and thought they should be called out. I've also been here long enough to know what I'm talking about. Yes it's true that in your tiny time here you've picked up on some what what I had problems with. Congratulations :thumbs:
However, with that said, you have even less credibility on here than Dave. So STFU! You're a joke.
Cheers,
Dixie
BigDaddyFink
New Member
Dixieland -dixieland_conjunction said:
Kudos to you as well - you'll notice that I too never said that Dave didn't have the right to be here. Just called him for what he is.
As for my credibility, I'm not the one begging you to sign up for endless amount of things for my benefit, nor I am I the one trying to plug my business. So, I have nothing at stake. Just, again, pointing out Dave for what he is. On that note, my "credibility" as you put it, has already spoken for itself.
I could be wrong, but isn't the FTC that also covers the issue of these not-quite legal cigars? I don't hear any complaints about that, now do I?BigDaddyFink said:
I for one don't have any illegal cigars - who else can claim that as well? How 'bout you, BDF?
Dave