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Drew Estate Undercrown and NC cigars (in general)

Juanote said:
Sometime should send these guys a couple of Padron 2000s with 5 or so years on them. I would find that review fascinating.
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Exactly - just as good as the 1926 for a hundred bucks a box.
 
My understanding as to why Cubans are aged is because the island has such an emphasis on production that they expect you to age their cigars whereas non Cuban manufacturers provide cigars that are ready to smoke now. Again, how many quality issues do you ever have with a "fresh" nc vs a " fresh" isom?
 
MrAnderson41 said:
My understanding as to why Cubans are aged is because the island has such an emphasis on production that they expect you to age their cigars whereas non Cuban manufacturers provide cigars that are ready to smoke now. Again, how many quality issues do you ever have with a "fresh" nc vs a " fresh" isom?
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I don't think there's any argument there.  The only problem I've had with Tats are on occasion with the Cazzies.  Of all the Padrons I've smoked, I can recall one that I had to toss.  One of hundreds.  With CCs, the list is long. 
 
MrAnderson41 said:
My understanding as to why Cubans are aged is because the island has such an emphasis on production that they expect you to age their cigars whereas non Cuban manufacturers provide cigars that are ready to smoke now. Again, how many quality issues do you ever have with a "fresh" nc vs a " fresh" isom?
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It's interesting to think about the differences between new world production and old world production (putting CCs in the old world camp). Take wine for instance. Most American wines are intended for immediate consumption so are blended to knock your socks off immediately rather than to markedly improved with age. Fine French wines of great vintages are intended to age and develop for decades. I wonder how much of the old world mentality will be adopted in the new, and what the blend of styles will eventually be like.
 
Juanote said:
 
My understanding as to why Cubans are aged is because the island has such an emphasis on production that they expect you to age their cigars whereas non Cuban manufacturers provide cigars that are ready to smoke now. Again, how many quality issues do you ever have with a "fresh" nc vs a " fresh" isom?
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It's interesting to think about the differences between new world production and old world production (putting CCs in the old world camp). Take wine for instance. Most American wines are intended for immediate consumption so are blended to knock your socks off immediately rather than to markedly improved with age. Fine French wines of great vintages are intended to age and develop for decades. I wonder how much of the old world mentality will be adopted in the new, and what the blend of styles will eventually be like.
 
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That's a fantastic point.  Especially if you consider some of the older NC producers with cigar blends that have either been aged or develop well with age.  You know, in this conversation, I think we've neglected at least one significant producer who has some cigars that do age very well: Avo Uvezian.
 
It occurs to me, Mr. McKenney, that the twin imperatives of capturing a slice of the market and dealing with raw material that is poorly understood has led to the emphasis of the immediate consumer impression in NC production. But with the passage of time, the market matures and culls out inferior products while rewarding the superior, and producers begin to discover methods that maximize the potentials of their environment. Ergo Opus etc., though Opus was but the beginning. I think the emergence of boutique premium manufacturers bodes well for the future of the NC industry.
 
Juanote said:
It's interesting to think about the differences between new world production and old world production (putting CCs in the old world camp). Take wine for instance. Most American wines are intended for immediate consumption so are blended to knock your socks off immediately rather than to markedly improved with age. Fine French wines of great vintages are intended to age and develop for decades. I wonder how much of the old world mentality will be adopted in the new, and what the blend of styles will eventually be like.
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I think you may be giving cc producers too much credit. They are all hand made products so some variation is inevitable. However you have master blenders like Pepin Garcia who come from that "old world" culture and produce a product that is of high quality that is ready for immediate consumption. What I'm trying to say is I think the reasons isoms are aged is more a function of the fact that you have to age them in order to get the same consistency as a nc, not necessarily because they age so much better than a nc. Isoms are typically made with from fresh, un aged tobaccos whereas your high end non Cubans are made from tobaccos that are already aged. Again, to me it seems like the isom strategy is quantity vs quality and let the consumer age the tobaccos versus putting out a quality product that is ready for immediate consumption.
 
I pretty much agree with you actually, with the caveat that CCs are a mature industry with well established tobacco cultivation that is both optimized to local conditions and generally superior to non Cuban tobacco. They don't have to try as hard to turn out a product that will become top notch with age.

NC cigar production is still developing and growing into its potential, and it will be interesting to see how it develops.
 
Juanote said:
I pretty much agree with you actually, with the caveat that CCs are a mature industry with well established tobacco cultivation that is both optimized to local conditions and generally superior to non Cuban tobacco. They don't have to try as hard to turn out a product that will become top notch with age.

NC cigar production is still developing and growing into its potential, and it will be interesting to see how it develops.
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We're on the same page.  Now what will be really interesting is when all those NC manufacturers are able to get their hands on some Cuban tabacco if we ever end the embargo.
 
MrAnderson41 said:
 
I pretty much agree with you actually, with the caveat that CCs are a mature industry with well established tobacco cultivation that is both optimized to local conditions and generally superior to non Cuban tobacco. They don't have to try as hard to turn out a product that will become top notch with age.

NC cigar production is still developing and growing into its potential, and it will be interesting to see how it develops.
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We're on the same page.  Now what will be really interesting is when all those NC manufacturers are able to get their hands on some Cuban tabacco if we ever end the embargo.
 
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I wonder about that as well, but I've also always hoped some producers would blend Nicaraguan and Domincan tobacco.  I should look into that more, but as it stands I don't know of any.  You would think some interesting cigars could come of that.  Just look at the Fuente cigars with Cameroon wrappers.  Fng magic. 
 
tsmckenney said:
 
 


I pretty much agree with you actually, with the caveat that CCs are a mature industry with well established tobacco cultivation that is both optimized to local conditions and generally superior to non Cuban tobacco. They don't have to try as hard to turn out a product that will become top notch with age.

NC cigar production is still developing and growing into its potential, and it will be interesting to see how it develops.
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We're on the same page.  Now what will be really interesting is when all those NC manufacturers are able to get their hands on some Cuban tabacco if we ever end the embargo.
 
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I wonder about that as well, but I've also always hoped some producers would blend Nicaraguan and Domincan tobacco.  I should look into that more, but as it stands I don't know of any.  You would think some interesting cigars could come of that.  Just look at the Fuente cigars with Cameroon wrappers.  Fng magic. 
 


E.P. Carrillo and Quesada both blend Nicaraguan and Dominican tobaccos with varying levels of success.  I really like Ernie's core line and the Quesada Jalapa is quite good.
 
Brickhouse said:
 
True brutha, true.  That is one thing with CCs though, many of them aren't all that expensive.  Cohibas and Trinis really, the rest are reasonable (by MN standards).
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I agree Mick, I've honestly moved to a lot of CC purchases due to the prices being more reasonable.
 
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A big part of how reasonable they prices are has to do with taxes.
 
Brickhouse said:
 
True brutha, true.  That is one thing with CCs though, many of them aren't all that expensive.  Cohibas and Trinis really, the rest are reasonable (by MN standards).
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I agree Mick, I've honestly moved to a lot of CC purchases due to the prices being more reasonable.
 
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Heh I was actually thinking the opposite the other day. The exact same vendor selling a box of PSP2's for the exact same price in Euro's as it was 10 years ago when I bought my first few boxes of CC's but now its approx 80-90$ more a box because the Dollar is worthless and the exchange rate sucks. I just cant bring myself to pull the trigger when I know that. I remember one of the big arguments was people knew the embargo was coming so they moved their cigar businesses and only left small amounts of the businesses in cuba so they felt some NC's like Diamond Crowns with age where just as good and Cubans. This was just something I recall a bunch of old cigar snobs at my local discussing. As for knowing the age of a cigar i think it easier to know and remember the age of cubans because of box codes ect. That info is more available. My box of Tatuajes I have no clue. I could write down when I bought them but it doesn't seem to matter much in regards to trade value. The only reason I think people make a point of the age with cubans and Opus is trade value and status. Lets be honest cigars have always been a status symbol for a lot of people, just like bragging about a brand of foreign wine from a particular year. Its not to say some domestics cant be just as good and the same price, they are simply not are rare.
 
tomthirtysix said:
 

True brutha, true.  That is one thing with CCs though, many of them aren't all that expensive.  Cohibas and Trinis really, the rest are reasonable (by MN standards).
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I agree Mick, I've honestly moved to a lot of CC purchases due to the prices being more reasonable.
 
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A big part of how reasonable they prices are has to do with taxes.

Good point. If the embargo ever ends, say goodbye to the low prices.
 
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