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Digital SLR

Cparker

Cparker

My dogs don't smoke
Joined
Sep 7, 2004
Messages
660
Location
ATL
The talent and knowledge base on Cigarpass is amazing, so I am speculating that this post my best resource. And, I know I can trust a BOTL or SOTL more than some online reviewer who may have ulterior motives.

I have read the online guides for shopping for digital SLR's (dpresource,amazon,Cnet). Helpful, but some of this stuff goes over my head, so I am posting this for practical feedback.

I have an old Kodak digital point and shoot camera on its last leg. I don't even think it has 1 Megapixel. So I need to repalce it. I haev decided to move up to a digital SLR ratehr than a point and shoot. I have a good expereince with a local B&M cmaera shop looking at point and shoots, and I will be happier with a digital SLR.

80% of what I use the camera for is pictures for online auctions and trading. So, I am thinking the 6 Megapixel is more than enough. Most of the photos will be still shots, and close ups. I also use the cameare to document things when I take them apart, so detail is important. My wife and I have dogs, and she does dog compettiion events, so I may occassionaly take some shots of her and the dogs during agility or herding competitions. (this woudl be a 5% use).
I do not expect to print images over 8x10, and if I did I think I can get them enlarged at the camera store.

I had a Pentax K1000 35mm film camera in high school that I used as a yearbook photographer. So, I do enjoy dabbling with camera equipment, and have fond memories of Pentax. Back then, i could not afford Nikon. The photo game has clearly changed with the ditigal era.

Here are my concerns.

1. I see a new image sensor, the CMOS, is hitting the market soon that is supposedly better than the CCD sensor. The prices had really dropped, but I cannot tell if they will continue to fall with the new sensors coming out, or if the new sensor will be availabe at about the same price.
2. Since most of my images will be posted online, does not seem to me I need more thatn 6 Megapixels. Am I wrong ? Can you lower the image rate for picture to be posted to avoid frustrating my friends still on dial up ?
3. Is now the right time to buy, or is it worth waitng another 3 to 6 months ? I am in no hurry. Plus, most new cameras are the same price or less than the used cameras I have come across.

I have no existing equipment, so would like a kit deal for less than $500 or $600. Here are are what I have looked at that falls in this range. (some a higher, but I do not want to be peenny wise and pound foolish).

1. Nikon D40- Nice, good review, and seems to have alot of third party lenses. But this camera does no have shake reduction, and the lenses for it seem stuck to the D40 one because of the autofocus being in the lens and not the camera body. I have read cleaning the sensor is a paid.

2. Pentax K100D- Like Pentax based on prior experience, but does not seem to have the fan base of Nikon. Also, cannot determine if it is worth spending a couple hundred dollars more and getting the K10.

3. Olympus 510 - Seem like a nice outfit, but have similar concerns as to third party supply.

4. Canon- Do not seem to find anyting in this line I can afford.

All advice apprecaited. Feel free to advise or PM me on good sources.

Thanks,

Cparker
 
Cparker said:
1. Nikon D40- Nice, good review, and seems to have alot of third party lenses. But this camera does no have shake reduction, and the lenses for it seem stuck to the D40 one because of the autofocus being in the lens and not the camera body. I have read cleaning the sensor is a paid.
Click to expand...

Bought this one for the wife and myself. She's never used anything besides a point and shoot digital and she loves it. It's a great intro to SLRs and worth the price. Would have really liked to have gotten the D80, but didn't want to drop that much cash on something she might not enjoy.
 
As a long time SLR/ DSLR user, the Nikon is a nice outfit for the money, gives you tons of options are far as adding to a system with less expensive 3rd party options. With the Olympus, you will not have to worry about cleaning the sensor, as it has a built in cleaner, and Olympus lenses are some great pieces of glass (I have owned alot of Olympus equipment), and they have several consumer level /price point lenses.
I personally would go with the Nikon setup for the flexibility in the system, as all Nikon equipment will fit all Nikons (past, present and future).
 
I’m going to 2nd the D40 suggestion.
This is a fantastic dSLR that fits ALL of your needs.

It is the right price at under $500 w/ a very nice kit lens.
The kit lens takes very serviceable close-ups and I imagine it would be perfect for documenting your builds and taking Auction shots.
The thing is easy-peasy to pick up and shoot with, but has all the fine-grain manual controls that you could want
You'll be buying into the Nikon 'system' which is a good place to be and the reason I went with this camera over the Pentax.

You mention lens compatibility w/ the D40, which is the only real down-side to the camera. The deal is the body has no focus motor (or 'screw drive') so it will only auto focus with lenses built with an internal focus motor (nikon designates these lenses as AF-S and Sigma (the largest of the 3rd party lens manufacturers) designates these lenses as HSM.) This means that you won't be able to buy inexpensive 20 year old lenses off ebay and have then auto focus on the D40. It also means that you can't get a cheap and fast 50mm 'normal' lens (like Nikon's legendary 50mm 1.8) that will auto focus. There is still enough great glass that WILL auto focus available for the D40. Enough that your cigar budget will be hurting for a while!

As for the anti-shake issue, for the focal lengths covered by the kit lens, anti-shake/IS/VR does relatively little. It is more important when you are dealing with longer lenses where any vibration is amplified. Most of nikon's telephoto lenses that will auto focus on the D40 also use nikon's VR 'vibration reduction' system that is an inter-lens stabilization system (which some say performs better than stabilization systems in the camera body.) I don't know which is better, but I do know that VR on my nikon 55-200mm lens (which retails for under $250 new) works GREAT!

6 Megapixles is a very good amount in my book. Perfect for web and even my 8x10 prints with liberal cropping have turned out great. I'm going to try a 20x30 print in the next week or so. Don't go for the 10mp d40X and a lot of folks (myself included) think that the IQ is actually better in the D40, especially at high ISOs

I think that now is a great time to buy, and wouldn’t worry about the CMOS sensors on the horizon. Think of all the wonderful pictures you’ll take in the six months waiting to buy a camera!

Here is an example of a ‘product shot’ that I took with my D40 over the weekend:
14uvplt.jpg

For some more examples take a look at my flickr:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/octopushat/

Feel free to PM me if you have any more questions, but I don’t think you can go wrong w/ the D40!
 
I have been using a Nikon D50 for about 3 years now and love it... You really cant go wrong with Nikon products. Even their entry-level equipment has plenty of flexibility and an excellent amount of 3rd party support.
 
thank you for the posts, clearly Nikon is the brand.

One follow up question. I am finding that the D80 is priced only slightly higher than the D40. While is has the large megapixels, it is also reviewed as a nicer camera for a few bucks more.

Should I go for the D40 or the D80 ? Can I set the image so the higher pixel count will not kill folks on dial up ?

Thanks,

Cparker
 
Cparker said:
thank you for the posts, clearly Nikon is the brand.

One follow up question. I am finding that the D80 is priced only slightly higher than the D40. While is has the large megapixels, it is also reviewed as a nicer camera for a few bucks more.

Should I go for the D40 or the D80 ? Can I set the image so the higher pixel count will not kill folks on dial up ?

Thanks,

Cparker
Click to expand...

go for the D80, more is better in this case. and you can always resize your images using an image editor.
 
Cparker said:
4. Canon- Do not seem to find anyting in this line I can afford.

All advice apprecaited. Feel free to advise or PM me on good sources.

Thanks,

Cparker
Click to expand...


What do you mean? The Canon Digital Rebel XTi is less than the Nikon D80 and has similar specs.

To further throw a wrench in your decision, you specified in your original post that the CMOS sensor is better than CCD. Both the Nikon D40 and D80 use a CCD sensor while the Canon Rebel XTi uses a CMOS sensor.

A great resource that has reviews on ALL digital SLRs is http://www.dpreview.com/
In reality you really can't go wrong with any of the choices for the recent cameras that have hit the market. It's just a matter of price at a certain point.
 
I have been very happy with my D40. Almost 6,000 exposures since the end of March.

Forget about the CMOS CCD thing. That is a red herring that will not affect the performance or use of that camera in the least. If you need something now, get it now. Product advancement is inevitable. While waiting may allow you to buy a higher performing product, paralysis will also steal your capability to capture shooting opportunities today.

The D80 and D40 are good cameras but are targeted at two different types of users. The D40 is the first logical step-up for people who have previously only used point and shoot digicams. It is light, easy to use, and works with a sufficient range of compatible lenses both Nikon and 3-rd party to cover any foreseeable shooting condition. The D80 is a prosumer camera which is larger, heavier, and more complicated to use. IMO, this item is overkill for your stated application.

If you take mostly product shots for online auctions, then I'd say save your money and buy a point and shoot (pixel count is irrelevant) that has an "eBay" preformatted mode (such as the Casio) and have done with it. If all other uses are only 5%, then I can't see how you could justify a dSLR expenditure. Remember, these are the parameters you gave us. The cost is $250-ish vs. 3-4X that for a dSLR and lens that will give you visibly more from a dog show situation. Also, for your application anything more than 3-4 Mpix is superfluous.

The size of the image you post is determined more by the image processing software you use to prep the photos for posting. EXCEPT in the case of the Casio eBay ready point and shoots which will allow you do upload and use photos direct from the camera without any additional manipulation or post-processing.

Wilkey
 
I am finding D40 camera bodies for $279, and D80 for $299, both new with US warranty. So real issue is the glass but I understand the D40 lenses are designed for the D40/40x only, so it appears to be smarter to buy lenses that will allow use for trade ups or wider resale.

I am in ATL, and there is a pretty good market for good quality used Nikkor glass that allows me to get wide angle and telephoto lens within my budget.

I will look at the Canon, but the prices I am seeing for it are higher for the body. Similarly strong aftermarket for lenses.

I learned to use a film camera on the Pentax K1000, so I hope the old SLR skills still work.

As for the point and shoot, the problem have with point and shoots is control for detail. I took a tractor part and a watch into the B&M photo shop, and the guy was nice enough to work wtih me shooting both. The digital SLR was much better at getting detail on part numbers and dim lit assembly than the point and shoot. And the camera will be a real plus for this as I have learned the hardware about not documenting assemblies. Plus, if I enjoy this camera, I will probably use it more, so my other concern is that the point and shoot may not be as fun.

Again, thanks for all the advice. Leaning to the D80 unless Canon change my mind.

Cparker
 
Cparker said:
I am finding D40 camera bodies for $279, and D80 for $299, both new with US warranty. So real issue is the glass but I understand the D40 lenses are designed for the D40/40x only, so it appears to be smarter to buy lenses that will allow use for trade ups or wider resale.

Cparker
Click to expand...

Where are you seeing those prices!
That is CRAZY too-good-to-be-true cheep.

The D40 is NOT available in the US as a body-only package, so if you find a seller trying to sell you just the body then there is something fishy going on. The D40 kit (w/ the 18-50mm lens) should street for around $500.

But $300 for a D80 (which should be upwards of $800 body-only) is insane.

Also, D40 lenses will work perfectly on any Nikon DX sensor (3/4-sized digital) camera from the D1 to the D200
 
cuppajack said:
Cparker said:
I am finding D40 camera bodies for $279, and D80 for $299, both new with US warranty. So real issue is the glass but I understand the D40 lenses are designed for the D40/40x only, so it appears to be smarter to buy lenses that will allow use for trade ups or wider resale.

Cparker
Click to expand...

Where are you seeing those prices!
That is CRAZY too-good-to-be-true cheep.

The D40 is NOT available in the US as a body-only package, so if you find a seller trying to sell you just the body then there is something fishy going on. The D40 kit (w/ the 18-50mm lens) should street for around $500.

But $300 for a D80 (which should be upwards of $800 body-only) is insane.

Also, D40 lenses will work perfectly on any Nikon DX sensor (3/4-sized digital) camera from the D1 to the D200
Click to expand...


Yes those prices sound way out of whack to me. I'm positive the Canon Rebel XTi is CHEAPER than the Nikon D80.
 
cuppajack said:
Where are you seeing those prices!
That is CRAZY too-good-to-be-true cheep.

The D40 is NOT available in the US as a body-only package, so if you find a seller trying to sell you just the body then there is something fishy going on. The D40 kit (w/ the 18-50mm lens) should street for around $500.

But $300 for a D80 (which should be upwards of $800 body-only) is insane.

Also, D40 lenses will work perfectly on any Nikon DX sensor (3/4-sized digital) camera from the D1 to the D200
Click to expand...
I totally agree. The lure of low price is there, but I'm guessing there are a number of hidden, unsavory maneuvers waiting for you at that price. No one who has researched the purchase of these items would go near those sellers. No way. But, it's your choice to make and if you do, please do let us know how it turns out.

Wilkey
 
Thank you for the warnings. I will heed them.

Based on these caveats, I made a few calls and made sure no one I am speaking to has a Broadway address.

Here is the story a B&M dealer in Florida is telling me.

He said Nikon is launching a new high end camera in November, and the D80 and the D40 are being phased out. The D40X will be the new intro camera to replace the D40, and the model above the D80 will replace the D80. He is offering me a D80 Kit for $599, which includes Nikor lens, bag, flash, memory card and tripod. The same kit with a D40 is $499.

I have not found any complaints against him with BBB.

It its too good to be true, then it probably is. I just don't know enough to know the truth.


Cparker
 
Cparker said:
The talent and knowledge base on Cigarpass is amazing, so I am speculating that this post my best resource. And, I know I can trust a BOTL or SOTL more than some online reviewer who may have ulterior motives.

I have read the online guides for shopping for digital SLR's (dpresource,amazon,Cnet). Helpful, but some of this stuff goes over my head, so I am posting this for practical feedback.

I have an old Kodak digital point and shoot camera on its last leg. I don't even think it has 1 Megapixel. So I need to repalce it. I haev decided to move up to a digital SLR ratehr than a point and shoot. I have a good expereince with a local B&M cmaera shop looking at point and shoots, and I will be happier with a digital SLR.

80% of what I use the camera for is pictures for online auctions and trading. So, I am thinking the 6 Megapixel is more than enough. Most of the photos will be still shots, and close ups. I also use the cameare to document things when I take them apart, so detail is important. My wife and I have dogs, and she does dog compettiion events, so I may occassionaly take some shots of her and the dogs during agility or herding competitions. (this woudl be a 5% use).
I do not expect to print images over 8x10, and if I did I think I can get them enlarged at the camera store.

I had a Pentax K1000 35mm film camera in high school that I used as a yearbook photographer. So, I do enjoy dabbling with camera equipment, and have fond memories of Pentax. Back then, i could not afford Nikon. The photo game has clearly changed with the ditigal era.

Here are my concerns.

1. I see a new image sensor, the CMOS, is hitting the market soon that is supposedly better than the CCD sensor. The prices had really dropped, but I cannot tell if they will continue to fall with the new sensors coming out, or if the new sensor will be availabe at about the same price.
2. Since most of my images will be posted online, does not seem to me I need more thatn 6 Megapixels. Am I wrong ? Can you lower the image rate for picture to be posted to avoid frustrating my friends still on dial up ?
3. Is now the right time to buy, or is it worth waitng another 3 to 6 months ? I am in no hurry. Plus, most new cameras are the same price or less than the used cameras I have come across.

I have no existing equipment, so would like a kit deal for less than $500 or $600. Here are are what I have looked at that falls in this range. (some a higher, but I do not want to be peenny wise and pound foolish).

1. Nikon D40- Nice, good review, and seems to have alot of third party lenses. But this camera does no have shake reduction, and the lenses for it seem stuck to the D40 one because of the autofocus being in the lens and not the camera body. I have read cleaning the sensor is a paid.

2. Pentax K100D- Like Pentax based on prior experience, but does not seem to have the fan base of Nikon. Also, cannot determine if it is worth spending a couple hundred dollars more and getting the K10.

3. Olympus 510 - Seem like a nice outfit, but have similar concerns as to third party supply.

4. Canon- Do not seem to find anyting in this line I can afford.

All advice apprecaited. Feel free to advise or PM me on good sources.

Thanks,

Cparker
Click to expand...

Thanks for bringing the subject up, I've been researching this a bit too. I have found that October is traditionally the best month to buy cameras and have seen some package deals at placesd like Costco (watch out for the small detail differences in the packages).
I'm partial to Fuji but the Nikon was tops in Consumer Digest. I've had a point-&-Shoot for several years but I would like the creativity the DSLRs offer: Soft focus, F-stop tricks, action photos, and studio set-ups for my painting reference photos. I'll keep reading with interest.
 
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