Bad guys been wearing armor more often, so practice head shots and groin shots, too.
Aim small, miss small.
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Conceal Carry
- Thread starter Bayamos
- Start date
Bad guys been wearing armor more often, so practice head shots and groin shots, too.
Aim small, miss small.
Good advice
Devil Doc
When Death smiles, Corpsmen smile back
All good advice, but you forget one thing. The bad guy is shooting back. How good's your aim under the stress of being killed? Hell, I know good shots who fall apart under the stress of a clock.
Doc
Doc
kann
One Leg Of Fury.
I haven't carried in about 6 years, but that's because of location, location, location, unfortunately. I EDC'd a full-size Springfield TRP for several years. I loved carrying that piece, it never felt heavy or uncomfortable either in a MS or Crossbreed holster. I had to switch to my S&W M&P 45c when I got a new socket design for my prosthesis, and I just couldn't find a comfortable position to carry the 1911 in anymore. I also regularly pocket carried a Smith 642, which is the only firearm I have a (Crimson Trace) laser on. I agree with the others that you need to shoot the hell out of whatever it is you carry. I also agree with Doc that you don't know how you are going to react... until you have to react.
Shoot as many different firearms as you can, then carry as many of those as you can to see if you can wear it from sun up until sun down. If you aren't going to carry it because it isn't comfortable, there's no sense in pretending. I prefer .45 over .40 S&W, but that's personal choice. I just like the positive feel of the "push" in .45 ACP recoil rather than the "snap" of .40 S&W. I wouldn't be averse to carrying 9mm if it meant I had it on me rather than home in a drawer, but I don't see any reason why I wouldn't go back to a .45 if I get to start carrying again (I'd have to get certified again, unfortunately, wherever that may be).
Shoot as many different firearms as you can, then carry as many of those as you can to see if you can wear it from sun up until sun down. If you aren't going to carry it because it isn't comfortable, there's no sense in pretending. I prefer .45 over .40 S&W, but that's personal choice. I just like the positive feel of the "push" in .45 ACP recoil rather than the "snap" of .40 S&W. I wouldn't be averse to carrying 9mm if it meant I had it on me rather than home in a drawer, but I don't see any reason why I wouldn't go back to a .45 if I get to start carrying again (I'd have to get certified again, unfortunately, wherever that may be).
OK, getting way off topic, sorry OP....
I know you can't dial 911 on a touchscreen phone when you get the full adrenaline dump. I know my ears turn off, my eyes go wide, time slows, and fine motor skills are nonexistent.
I did a 300 degree simulator last year on an active shooter scenario in a high school. Multiple bad guys in the scenario, and I didn't even use my sights until the last engagement.
I wanted to puke when it was over, but it was an adrenaline rush like you wouldn't believe.
Picking a carry pistol takes time, and a bit of research, but most importantly, range time. There is a certain sort of 'zen' that has to happen....you need to like the gun, it has to fit in your hand, and you have to be confidant in that weapon. When the SHTF you're going to have everything against you and your tools need to function flawlessly, and you need to be completely confidant in them. You need to be able to hit what you are shooting at. And, since the key to successful defensive firearm use is having one, my carry choices are simple and completely concealed.
Gear is very personal, but here's what I roll with. My 'run to the store' gun is a S&W 642 Airweight. Mine made the trip to Cylinder & Slide for the 'full meal deal'...reliability and sighting improvements. It slips in an Uncle Mike's pocket liner and rides completely concealed in the front pocket of a pair of jeans. With five rounds of Speer Gold Dot .38+P, it feels like enough gun and I'm very confidant in it. My slightly bigger gun is a Glock 26 that rides in a SHTF IWB holster. That gets me 11 rounds of 9mm. All three of my Glocks are set up identically; factory 5lb connector, and Meprolight tritium sights. Key to making IWB work is a solid belt. I bought one from Bullhide Belts, I can't recommend them enough. When I travel, I have one of those on my person and either my G23/9 or G21/45 in an off body carry bag, with at least one extra mag.
Caliber is another personal choice. I've got pretty much every meaningful handgun caliber you can think of in the safe. I started out shooting my G23 (.40) and really tried to like it. .40 is a really snappy caliber, the recoil time / force curve reminds me of a hot .357...pretty sharp. It really goes 'pop' in a mid frame sized auto. What I ended up doing was getting a Lone Wolf conversion barrel and a handful of Glock 19 mags and now it's a 9mm. No other changes were necessary, and it's been completely reliable. Two more rounds in the mag, and I shoot better strings with it. That is my 'what was that noise' nighttime gun, with a Streamlight light / laser combo on the rail.
I've got other fun stuff in the safe that I very much enjoy shooting, but when it comes to carry, those are the ones I go to.
Lastly, ammo is a big deal. Two great ammo references for your review. Simple facts are that with modern defense ammo, practical differences between 9mm, .40, and .45 are greatly minimized to the point of being a non issue. Shot placement and follow up are what keeps you alive; I'd rather hit a bad guy twice with a 9mm than miss him once with a .40. If I'm carrying, my ammo says "Speer" on the headstamp.
https://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/
I've spent a lot of hours on the range and in the simulator, taken a few classes, and read everything I could get my hands on. I also have a Marine armorer in the family that isn't shy about offering an opinion. But, the honest truth is that I've never been unfortunate enough to have to shoot at someone in anger. So, what you have here is only "one man's opinion", and could be total BS.....
Good luck, be safe and aware, and practice, practice, practice....!!
Gear is very personal, but here's what I roll with. My 'run to the store' gun is a S&W 642 Airweight. Mine made the trip to Cylinder & Slide for the 'full meal deal'...reliability and sighting improvements. It slips in an Uncle Mike's pocket liner and rides completely concealed in the front pocket of a pair of jeans. With five rounds of Speer Gold Dot .38+P, it feels like enough gun and I'm very confidant in it. My slightly bigger gun is a Glock 26 that rides in a SHTF IWB holster. That gets me 11 rounds of 9mm. All three of my Glocks are set up identically; factory 5lb connector, and Meprolight tritium sights. Key to making IWB work is a solid belt. I bought one from Bullhide Belts, I can't recommend them enough. When I travel, I have one of those on my person and either my G23/9 or G21/45 in an off body carry bag, with at least one extra mag.
Caliber is another personal choice. I've got pretty much every meaningful handgun caliber you can think of in the safe. I started out shooting my G23 (.40) and really tried to like it. .40 is a really snappy caliber, the recoil time / force curve reminds me of a hot .357...pretty sharp. It really goes 'pop' in a mid frame sized auto. What I ended up doing was getting a Lone Wolf conversion barrel and a handful of Glock 19 mags and now it's a 9mm. No other changes were necessary, and it's been completely reliable. Two more rounds in the mag, and I shoot better strings with it. That is my 'what was that noise' nighttime gun, with a Streamlight light / laser combo on the rail.
I've got other fun stuff in the safe that I very much enjoy shooting, but when it comes to carry, those are the ones I go to.
Lastly, ammo is a big deal. Two great ammo references for your review. Simple facts are that with modern defense ammo, practical differences between 9mm, .40, and .45 are greatly minimized to the point of being a non issue. Shot placement and follow up are what keeps you alive; I'd rather hit a bad guy twice with a 9mm than miss him once with a .40. If I'm carrying, my ammo says "Speer" on the headstamp.
https://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/
I've spent a lot of hours on the range and in the simulator, taken a few classes, and read everything I could get my hands on. I also have a Marine armorer in the family that isn't shy about offering an opinion. But, the honest truth is that I've never been unfortunate enough to have to shoot at someone in anger. So, what you have here is only "one man's opinion", and could be total BS.....
Good luck, be safe and aware, and practice, practice, practice....!!
Allofus123
Here ducky, ducky, ducky!
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2001
- Messages
- 3,869
Here's where all the crap about shot placement goes out the window.... when you're in a gun fight. Talk about all the gun range experience you have and it means diddly. Ask any deer hunter after a 10 point heavy antlered walks out of no where.
Shoot the largest caliber you are comfortable with.
Shoot the largest caliber you are comfortable with.
Bayamos
You reap what you sow...
Thank you all for your thoughts on this. Some great input, I will keep you posted.
Breedy
Busted
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2007
- Messages
- 2,123
Since the performance gap in handguns rounds is pretty minimal, capacity trumps caliber.
I agree. Only point being is that you should shoot the caliber you shoot the most accurately with. That includes every round in the weapon. I'm completely comfortable with my .44 Mag, and am quite accurate with it, but I wouldn't consider it for defense.
Since I've never had to shoot at someone in anger, range and class time is all I have. Practice is practice, builds muscle memory, aids shot placement and technique. Respectfully, shot placement matters quite a bit.
^^^^ this. Close enough only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear bombs.
I agree that placement matters, alot, but with an average of about 10 feet for deadly force incidents, I have to wonder if an experienced shooter is going to do better than a lot of folks would expect?
In addition, that proximity makes me much more comfortable with something reknowned for stopping power.
ETA: Granted, stopping power is controversial, and misconstrued by a lot of folks. I mean by trauma, not the notion that someone is going to go flying across a room.
In addition, that proximity makes me much more comfortable with something reknowned for stopping power.
ETA: Granted, stopping power is controversial, and misconstrued by a lot of folks. I mean by trauma, not the notion that someone is going to go flying across a room.
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Puros Locos
Permanent FNG
I'll keep my reply short, but as has already been said, whatever you go with make sure you comfortable carrying it ALL THE TIME. Otherwise after the newness wears off you will find yourself ma king excuses not to carry it everywhere you go.
Always carry it in the same place on your body and practice drawing it. Muscle memory takes over in a stressful situation.
Pick the caliber that you make the most accurate follow up shot with. If you miss, who's standing behind your attacker?
Consider a round that doesn't over penetrate. Again, who's behind your attacker?
I'll try to add a few more points later, but I gotta get back to work...and sorry if some of these issues have already been brought up.
Always carry it in the same place on your body and practice drawing it. Muscle memory takes over in a stressful situation.
Pick the caliber that you make the most accurate follow up shot with. If you miss, who's standing behind your attacker?
Consider a round that doesn't over penetrate. Again, who's behind your attacker?
I'll try to add a few more points later, but I gotta get back to work...and sorry if some of these issues have already been brought up.
jsm11
Secret Squirrel
Hmmm.... Have not seen a gun thread on here before 
Now that I'm free of the People's Republic of Maryland, DC, and Virginia I'm back to carrying. FWIW, I'm a tremendous Glock fan, I love the ergonomics, I love that there is no external safety beyond the trigger, and I love knowing it goes bang reliable on all types of ammo.
I carry a Multitude of Glocks, but prefer the Glock 30. I'll carry the 21 at times and dip into the 9mm 19 and 43 on occasion. During the winter when I have longer shirts, etc. it's the fullsize 21. I rarely carry the 43 in an ankle holster and it's impossible to detect IMO, but slow to draw.
As has been said, train, train, train. Drill at the house and take some classes. I've always found it funny that people will pay $1,000 for a gun and not sp me a couple bills on training. I've taken several classes and they are invaluable; you'll learn technique, application, and the laws to protect yourself.
Tidbit I've always found interesting, based on some classes I took, I learned a man can close 16-20' quicker than you can draw and aim. Think about that....
I'm a big boy, normally my comfort zone in an average area is fairly small, it expands in interesting surroundings.
Also, FWI I would avoid the .40, I've never liked the recoil.
9mm is a great option because you can carry more rounds and it's easier to shoot in a non-dominant hand.
GL
Edit: if you need a holster check out Zorn, they're amazing....
Now that I'm free of the People's Republic of Maryland, DC, and Virginia I'm back to carrying. FWIW, I'm a tremendous Glock fan, I love the ergonomics, I love that there is no external safety beyond the trigger, and I love knowing it goes bang reliable on all types of ammo.
I carry a Multitude of Glocks, but prefer the Glock 30. I'll carry the 21 at times and dip into the 9mm 19 and 43 on occasion. During the winter when I have longer shirts, etc. it's the fullsize 21. I rarely carry the 43 in an ankle holster and it's impossible to detect IMO, but slow to draw.
As has been said, train, train, train. Drill at the house and take some classes. I've always found it funny that people will pay $1,000 for a gun and not sp me a couple bills on training. I've taken several classes and they are invaluable; you'll learn technique, application, and the laws to protect yourself.
Tidbit I've always found interesting, based on some classes I took, I learned a man can close 16-20' quicker than you can draw and aim. Think about that....
I'm a big boy, normally my comfort zone in an average area is fairly small, it expands in interesting surroundings.
Also, FWI I would avoid the .40, I've never liked the recoil.
9mm is a great option because you can carry more rounds and it's easier to shoot in a non-dominant hand.
GL
Edit: if you need a holster check out Zorn, they're amazing....
jsm11
Secret Squirrel
Training helps, talked to a cop buddy today...
He and a partner unloaded over 60 rounds towards a perp the other day...
Hit the perp once in the leg...
When you react and scramble accuracy goes out the window IMO... I think for most, even those that are considered trained.
Geebus. Did he happen to mention the distance they were shooting? If he was running, avoidance, etc. Just curious as I've been considering some "things"/strategies/conditions lately.
Puros Locos
Permanent FNG
I suspect there is MUCH more to that story...60 rounds means each officer reloaded at least once...probably twice.
jsm11
Secret Squirrel
We're chasing the guy, he spun and fired a round off towards them...
Sought cover while emptying the magazine, said it was empty before he found cover.
Reloaded and dumped another magazine down range.
During the emptying of the second magazine, the per was struck by a bullet.
Both were carrying Glock 17s
Sought cover while emptying the magazine, said it was empty before he found cover.
Reloaded and dumped another magazine down range.
During the emptying of the second magazine, the per was struck by a bullet.
Both were carrying Glock 17s
jsm11
Secret Squirrel
Not too much more, think about how quickly you can empty a clip and reload in a heated situation.... my index finger moves quick...
You suppress the situation with fire to reach a save spot or control the situation. You replace the mag and continue to suppress...
Hmmm.... Have not seen a gun thread on here before
Now that I'm free of the People's Republic of Maryland, DC, and Virginia I'm back to carrying. FWIW, I'm a tremendous Glock fan, I love the ergonomics, I love that there is no external safety beyond the trigger, and I love knowing it goes bang reliable on all types of ammo.....
I've got a few nice examples in the safe, including a Springfield 'Operator' which is a seriously nice 1911. But, when push comes to shove, I'll shoot my G21, G23/9, and my G26 with confidence.
Was running though some cheap .45 reloads at the range, and ended up with a dozen or so that the Springfield wouldn't chamber. On a whim, I loaded them into the Glock and stepped up to the line and went 'pow, pow, pow, pow...." until they were all gone, on target, and the slide locked back just like it was supposed to.
They aren't pretty, but when it absolutely, positively, has to work, the tools from Glock have my respect.