Cigar Afficionado and Cubans

[badhangover]

I think "the man" offers his clear interpretation of the "I was given this" law when they zing the little guy with seizures and OFAC just for finding a "gift box" in the mail with the recipient's address information on it. The little guy says it's a gift, the box declaration states it is a gift, there is no purchase receipt attached - and yet "the man" pilfers it away.

One need not leave the country to be an importer.

Edit to add: I would be just as cautious about being a recipient of Habanos moving about domestic territory. The relief of that concern is that Customs is generally targeted at our borders and not internally. That doesn't mean I'd like for a box to break open in USPS hands though. They may not recognize the product, they may not care about the product, but I'd still be concerned - and likely rightfully so. I really don't think receiving a Cuban product for free within America gets one off the hook of the embargo policy. - end edit.

cA sucks --- in that their lawyers and their schmoozing of powerful people enable them to skirt the law in a manner in which many little guys would like to. But that is just sour grapes and it has nothing to do with me.

You gonna buy or otherwise procure them Habanos, do so at your own informed discretion, and don't be sour grapes (not suggesting anyone on here is).

 

[Mike33]

While this probably doesn't matter, I found one case and one case only that has dealt with cuban cigar possession in the U.S. A warrant was served at the guy's house for a weapons charge and they found 50 some boxes of cubans. They came back with another warrant and took all the cigars (supposed value of $25,000) and this was upheld on appeal. Not sure of the fine, but there was one imposed on him. The case is U.S. v. Connors in the N.D. of Ill.

So while the statute doesn't specifically ban possession in the U.S. as CA stated, me thinks you could be convicted of a violation for simply smoking a PSD4 in a bar

Edit: Fixed Connors.

 

[grateful1]

While this probably doesn't matter, I found one case and one case only that has dealt with cuban cigar possession in the U.S. A warrant was served at the guy's house for a weapons charge and they found 50 some boxes of cubans. They came back with another warrant and took all the cigars (supposed value of $25,000) and this was upheld on appeal. Not sure of the fine, but there was one imposed on him. The case is U.S. v. Conner in the N.D. of Ill.

So while the statute doesn't specifically ban possession in the U.S. as CA stated, me thinks you could be convicted of a violation for simply smoking a PSD4 in a bar

Linky please!

 

[Mike33]

While this probably doesn't matter, I found one case and one case only that has dealt with cuban cigar possession in the U.S. A warrant was served at the guy's house for a weapons charge and they found 50 some boxes of cubans. They came back with another warrant and took all the cigars (supposed value of $25,000) and this was upheld on appeal. Not sure of the fine, but there was one imposed on him. The case is U.S. v. Conner in the N.D. of Ill.

So while the statute doesn't specifically ban possession in the U.S. as CA stated, me thinks you could be convicted of a violation for simply smoking a PSD4 in a bar

Linky please!

No linky Gary, you have to have a subscription to Westlaw or LexisNexis to access the case. I tried searching on the US Cir. Ct. for Northern Ill., but the opinion was not on there.

What, you don't believe me?

 

[grateful1]

While this probably doesn't matter, I found one case and one case only that has dealt with cuban cigar possession in the U.S. A warrant was served at the guy's house for a weapons charge and they found 50 some boxes of cubans. They came back with another warrant and took all the cigars (supposed value of $25,000) and this was upheld on appeal. Not sure of the fine, but there was one imposed on him. The case is U.S. v. Conner in the N.D. of Ill.

So while the statute doesn't specifically ban possession in the U.S. as CA stated, me thinks you could be convicted of a violation for simply smoking a PSD4 in a bar

Linky please!

No linky Gary, you have to have a subscription to Westlaw or LexisNexis to access the case. I tried searching on the US Cir. Ct. for Northern Ill., but the opinion was not on there.

What, you don't believe me?

No, I don't ....you should provide linky's and free cigars to those you offend!

:whistling:

 

[rob300c]

If you read too deep into Gary's posts and make inferences and assumptions then it'll definately freak you out!

If you meet Gary he will freak you out...
With his generosity and kindness.

He lets a crazy 265 lb Hawaiian he met on the internet sleep with his cigars!

-Rob

ps. not Hawaiian but I have been accused of it!

Not sure who the weird one is here, you Rob for sleeping with Gary's cigars or Gary, allowing you to sleep with his cigars. Strange bed fellows for sure! :laugh:

Brian

Brian,
Don't knock it til you try it!
But we are both definately weird...
in a good way!
If you ever trade with Gary and find little hairs...

Back to the OP...
I look at the CCs in CA kind of like High Times.
It's quasi-legal but freedom of speech allows them to put out information on illegal things (extreme ie. Meth cookbooks).

Why Shanken doesn't get raided for obviously holding contraband is beyond me.
But I am glad it doesn't happen.
If he gets nailed then are the little guys next?
Or will the little guys fall first?
Is he getting around it (or ignored by the gov't) because he isn't directly accepting packages or selling smokes?
It could be argued that he is at least indirectly supporting Cuba by giving exposure to their smokes by allowing them to be reviewed.
Some food for thought.

-Rob

PS. Gary when we gonna drink some of that tea? :laugh:

 

[Mike33]

While this probably doesn't matter, I found one case and one case only that has dealt with cuban cigar possession in the U.S. A warrant was served at the guy's house for a weapons charge and they found 50 some boxes of cubans. They came back with another warrant and took all the cigars (supposed value of $25,000) and this was upheld on appeal. Not sure of the fine, but there was one imposed on him. The case is U.S. v. Conner in the N.D. of Ill.

So while the statute doesn't specifically ban possession in the U.S. as CA stated, me thinks you could be convicted of a violation for simply smoking a PSD4 in a bar

Linky please!

No linky Gary, you have to have a subscription to Westlaw or LexisNexis to access the case. I tried searching on the US Cir. Ct. for Northern Ill., but the opinion was not on there.

What, you don't believe me?

No, I don't ....you should provide linky's and free cigars to those you offend!

:whistling:

That hurts ya jerk!

The guy was also caught trying to smuggle in 1,150 cigars from Canada and paid a $1,000 fine in 1996. Some people don't learn I guess....

 

[rbbrock]

While this probably doesn't matter, I found one case and one case only that has dealt with cuban cigar possession in the U.S. A warrant was served at the guy's house for a weapons charge and they found 50 some boxes of cubans. They came back with another warrant and took all the cigars (supposed value of $25,000) and this was upheld on appeal. Not sure of the fine, but there was one imposed on him. The case is U.S. v. Conner in the N.D. of Ill.

So while the statute doesn't specifically ban possession in the U.S. as CA stated, me thinks you could be convicted of a violation for simply smoking a PSD4 in a bar

Cripes, Mike, the 7th Circuit actually cites to CA in its opinion! ("Despite some controversy over the degree to which Cuba (where tobacco was first encountered by European explorers) has been able to maintain the quality of its cigars under communist rule, it is undisputed that the leaves grown in the fertile soil of the Vuelta Abajo, in the western province of Pinar del Rio, cultivated and prepared according to centuries-old traditions, produce an incomparably smooth, pungent, and full-bodied smoke." See James Suckling, "On the Road to Tobacco Country: A journey into the Vuelta Abajo, land of the world's best cigar leaves," Cigar Aficionado magazine, May/June 2001.).

 

[tone-ny]

While this probably doesn't matter, I found one case and one case only that has dealt with cuban cigar possession in the U.S. A warrant was served at the guy's house for a weapons charge and they found 50 some boxes of cubans. They came back with another warrant and took all the cigars (supposed value of $25,000) and this was upheld on appeal. Not sure of the fine, but there was one imposed on him. The case is U.S. v. Conner in the N.D. of Ill.

So while the statute doesn't specifically ban possession in the U.S. as CA stated, me thinks you could be convicted of a violation for simply smoking a PSD4 in a bar

Cripes, Mike, the 7th Circuit actually cites to CA in its opinion! ("Despite some controversy over the degree to which Cuba (where tobacco was first encountered by European explorers) has been able to maintain the quality of its cigars under communist rule, it is undisputed that the leaves grown in the fertile soil of the Vuelta Abajo, in the western province of Pinar del Rio, cultivated and prepared according to centuries-old traditions, produce an incomparably smooth, pungent, and full-bodied smoke." See James Suckling, "On the Road to Tobacco Country: A journey into the Vuelta Abajo, land of the world's best cigar leaves," Cigar Aficionado magazine, May/June 2001.).

Remember Suckiling is not a US citizen. So he is not bound by the same restrictions a US citizen would be.

 

[Strayvector]

If you read too deep into Gary's posts and make inferences and assumptions then it'll definately freak you out!

If you meet Gary he will freak you out...
With his generosity and kindness.

He lets a crazy 265 lb Hawaiian he met on the internet sleep with his cigars!

-Rob

ps. not Hawaiian but I have been accused of it!

Not sure who the weird one is here, you Rob for sleeping with Gary's cigars or Gary, allowing you to sleep with his cigars. Strange bed fellows for sure! :laugh:

Brian

Brian,
Don't knock it til you try it!
But we are both definately weird...
in a good way!
If you ever trade with Gary and find little hairs...


-Rob

PS. Gary when we gonna drink some of that tea? :laugh:

Gary was telling everyone that you were Lewinskying his cigars for him. He was very proud of the aroma of those cigars.

 

[Ginseng]

This thread has made a nice recovery. Great work, CPers.

Wilkey

 

[Mike33]

While this probably doesn't matter, I found one case and one case only that has dealt with cuban cigar possession in the U.S. A warrant was served at the guy's house for a weapons charge and they found 50 some boxes of cubans. They came back with another warrant and took all the cigars (supposed value of $25,000) and this was upheld on appeal. Not sure of the fine, but there was one imposed on him. The case is U.S. v. Conner in the N.D. of Ill.

So while the statute doesn't specifically ban possession in the U.S. as CA stated, me thinks you could be convicted of a violation for simply smoking a PSD4 in a bar

Cripes, Mike, the 7th Circuit actually cites to CA in its opinion! ("Despite some controversy over the degree to which Cuba (where tobacco was first encountered by European explorers) has been able to maintain the quality of its cigars under communist rule, it is undisputed that the leaves grown in the fertile soil of the Vuelta Abajo, in the western province of Pinar del Rio, cultivated and prepared according to centuries-old traditions, produce an incomparably smooth, pungent, and full-bodied smoke." See James Suckling, "On the Road to Tobacco Country: A journey into the Vuelta Abajo, land of the world's best cigar leaves," Cigar Aficionado magazine, May/June 2001.).

That would be interesting to read! What's the cite for that case?

Have you been able to find any cases that deal with possession in the U.S? I've just begun to learn how to research on WL and LN, so I'm probably not finding everything out there.

 

[mmburtch]

The "rumor" I heard was that the feds did at one point attempt to raid the humidor in the CA offices. However, after their superiors were given a list of regular customers and guests to that humidor, the agents made their apologies and left quietly.

Sadly, this doesn't sound that far fetched.

 

[badhangover]

Remember Suckiling is not a US citizen. So he is not bound by the same restrictions a US citizen would be.

But the company he works for is, and his articles and reviews are for their commercial benefit. I am also supposing that he is making those trips to Cuba off'a their dime (one way or another). :whistling:

 

[Mike33]

While this probably doesn't matter, I found one case and one case only that has dealt with cuban cigar possession in the U.S. A warrant was served at the guy's house for a weapons charge and they found 50 some boxes of cubans. They came back with another warrant and took all the cigars (supposed value of $25,000) and this was upheld on appeal. Not sure of the fine, but there was one imposed on him. The case is U.S. v. Conner in the N.D. of Ill.

So while the statute doesn't specifically ban possession in the U.S. as CA stated, me thinks you could be convicted of a violation for simply smoking a PSD4 in a bar

Cripes, Mike, the 7th Circuit actually cites to CA in its opinion! ("Despite some controversy over the degree to which Cuba (where tobacco was first encountered by European explorers) has been able to maintain the quality of its cigars under communist rule, it is undisputed that the leaves grown in the fertile soil of the Vuelta Abajo, in the western province of Pinar del Rio, cultivated and prepared according to centuries-old traditions, produce an incomparably smooth, pungent, and full-bodied smoke." See James Suckling, "On the Road to Tobacco Country: A journey into the Vuelta Abajo, land of the world's best cigar leaves," Cigar Aficionado magazine, May/June 2001.).

Remember Suckiling is not a US citizen. So he is not bound by the same restrictions a US citizen would be.

Correct that he is not a U.S. citizen, but he is not allowed to bring Cuban tobacco or alcohol into the U.S. no matter if it is a gift or personal consumption. So, one would think he could just as easily be fined for smoking one of his Monte Edmundos in his L.A. park

 

[tone-ny]

Remember Suckiling is not a US citizen. So he is not bound by the same restrictions a US citizen would be.

But the company he works for is, and his articles and reviews are for their commercial benefit. I am also supposing that he is making those trips to Cuba off'a their dime (one way or another). :whistling:

Remember the press has the freedom to report on whatever they want. I'm sure that Time, Business Week and NY Times among others have reporters that are in Cuba and go there on a moments notice who are US citizens. The thing with Cuban cigars is so arbitrary it's funny. This months CA has an article about a gentlemen I've met and eaten in his restaurants. The article is about his run in with the government, while having in his establishment over 50,00 Cuban cigars. Read the article it is interesting reading. The food at his restaurant is outstanding.

 

[badhangover]

Man, I gotta be honest. I cannot force myself to wade through cA anymore. It's like at the bottom stack of my bathroom reading material, and often never comes outta the plastic wrap covering. I'm sick and tired of reading about Shanken's golf adventures and articles for $20k watches. Articles! Not just advertisements! They are so far removed from the common man it is sickening. The only part I care to peruse is that section at the very end. Those two page write-up's on industry insiders. I forget the name of the piece, but I like it. But to read those two pages, and only those two pages, I sometimes cannot gather the interest and energy to bust open that aforementioned plastic wrap covering.

 

[tone-ny]

I agree, but that one article was well written and discussed a very famous case in NY. It was a who's who's of the scene and the cigars that were confiscated.

 

[badhangover]

And while you are right about journalistic privileges, I do not think it would qualify in the manner in which Mr Suckling is conducting business as an agent for cA. Of course, we are forced to return to the slight vagueness of the embargo's current wording. Without a doubt, there is no way to legally justify Mr Shanken's private stash he so often displays in print photographs and in videos with his NYC office as the setting.

 

[badhangover]

I agree, but that one article was well written and discussed a very famous case in NY. It was a who's who's of the scene and the cigars that were confiscated.

Anthony, who was depicted on the cover? I'll raid my bathroom collection looking for it.