Aging Cuban Cigars

[MadMonk]

I've had the opportunity to smoke a few cuban cigars.
I noticed fresher cigars have more distinct, and complex flavor characteristics (delicious).

I've smoked some with a little age on them, maybe a year or two, and most have been very twangy.
I'd say the twang was very dominant.

I smoked some with approximately the same ages +/- 1 or 2 yrs, and the twang was there, but not so dominant, and with a much more rounded flavor. Much more preferable, and very pleasant.

So my question could consist of two parts. Is the dominant twang something that is desired or is proper aging supposed to produce better balance? I.e., dominant twang equals needs more down time.

Now, I did go to the local B&M to look at several issues of Cigar Afficianado. The review comments on some older smokes, led me to think that they are either full of it, or I have a mouth like leather...which I doubt. I.e., the older cubans I tried bear NO relationship, whatsoever, to said descriptions. Again begging the question, was CAs complex, more what I attribute to a fresh cigars, flavor profile descriptions an aging phenomena, or are these guys just full of it, and love to feed the mystique of cuban cigars?

 

[Mike33]

I've had the opportunity to smoke a few cuban cigars.
I noticed fresher cigars have more distinct, and complex flavor characteristics (delicious).

I've smoked some with a little age on them, maybe a year or two, and most have been very twangy.
I'd say the twang was very dominant.

I smoked some with approximately the same ages +/- 1 or 2 yrs, and the twang was there, but not so dominant, and with a much more rounded flavor. Much more preferable, and very pleasant.

So my question could consist of two parts. Is the dominant twang something that is desired or is proper aging supposed to produce better balance? I.e., dominant twang equals needs more down time.

Now, I did go to the local B&M to look at several issues of Cigar Afficianado. The review comments on some older smokes, led me to think that they are either full of it, or I have a mouth like leather...which I doubt. I.e., the older cubans I tried bear NO relationship, whatsoever, to said descriptions. Again begging the question, was CAs complex, more what I attribute to a fresh cigars, flavor profile descriptions an aging phenomena, or are these guys just full of it, and love to feed the mystique of cuban cigars?

Usually young cuban cigars are considerably more "closed off" in terms of flavors and complexity than an aged one. Cigars in general, and specifically cubans, often develop more balance and complexity as they age. These are all just general observations.....not all aged cigars are good or get better with age. A lot has to deal with how much age as well. I still consider 2 or 3 year old cigars as "young" or "fresh," so I would say try some with a little more age and then see what the difference is in the taste profiles b/w fresh and aged.

Regarding CA, a lot of the aged cigars they smoke are fairly rare or rare with the kind of age they have. I take what they say with a grain of salt as should anyone unless they have smoked the same cigar they are reviewing.

 

[rectifythis]

...the dominant twang something that is desired or is proper aging supposed to produce better balance? I.e., dominant twang equals needs more down time.

What do YOU like? Personally, I think they are great very fresh (a few weeks after rolling) or aged a minumum of 2 years. Many smoke great at 5. Some even at 10. I have found some to completely lose their character after too much age. It has been recommended before to buy a box and smoke one every 3 months until you find them to be good. For myself, I have found 3-5 years to be a good number.

 

[MadMonk]

I liked them very fresh, and some that I've had that were aged were very sublime, complex, rounded,
and very enjoyable.
The ones that I didn't enjoy were the ones that I refer to as very twangy. They were not really pleasant at all with a very dominant, one dimensional, twang and not much else. Absolutely no complexity or roundness.

What I'm specifically but poorly asking is if they are real twangy, does that indicate anything specific?
Such as needing more time, improper aging, or sometimes that just happens, and they just stay twangy.

If you are aging, and notice this, does it indicate anything is off, or is it just a natural stage of development?

Their may be folks who have aged and sampled periodocally and might have experienced a period where the cigar had this dominant twang, and then mellowed and rounded.

 

[jfields]

I think what Mike was trying to say, and maybe what you are asking is........That yes, that "Twang" could indicate that they may need more time, or that the cigar in question may already be all that it can be with one year or less of down time.

I've had RASS that were really nice while fresh, but took several years to get to the point where I considered them to have reached the point where the sickness had mellowed. Also, where they had taken on more complexity and balance with the flavors melding quite a bit more.

Other cigars like CORO & RYJ Short Churchills seem to reach that point quite a bit faster. I've had them with less than a year on the box date, and while good, you could taste the youth with things like ammonia poking through. Pick the same box up eight months later, and I could not believe it was the same cigar.

Then I had a box of Monte #2's that I could not stand while fresh (06 box date), but after one year were smoking really great, and continue to evolve every time I smoke one.

Lastly, I have had Cuban cigars that have had ten plus years on them. The flavors were "quite" a bit more muted compared to others I have had. While I find them enjoyable, they are a completely different experience compared to the other examples above.

Everything is different (just like our taste preferences), and I'm sure conditions such as Temp/humidity play a role too. I've read that keeping them in cooler temps can slow the aging process quite a bit as well.
Edit to add this link to a series of reviews Wilkey will be diong on a cabinet of SLR DC's to show aging progression.

Hope this helps. ???

 

[Ginseng]

"Tastes great! Less filling!

I noticed fresher cigars have more distinct, and complex flavor characteristics (delicious).
This suggests that you like the forward, forceful, and dare I say unrefined, presentation of primary flavors found in young cigars. Welcome to the club! The discussion regarding complexity, progression, and balance are perennial and remain unresolved so let's leave that aside for the time being. What I can say is that young cigars present their flavor coupled with strength and certain aspects of youthfulness (a certain bite or edge, to be distinguished from blatant harshness) that I truly enjoy and find invigorating.

I've smoked some with a little age on them, maybe a year or two, and most have been very twangy.
I'd say the twang was very dominant.
I can't say that I've found this with any consistency. Habanos that have the twang show the twang right from the beginning and at least as far as the first 3 or 4 years, the twang remains a constant. I suppose there will be some that claim the Cuban twang is a misnomer at best and at worst, a delusion. But I am not saying that it is a characteristic flavor profile, rather that it is a specific flavor note that is identified most commonly in the context of some Cuban cigars. I have come to identify it as a refreshing acidity (in the good sense, as with coffee) that is present in good exemplars of the Montecristo and El Rey del Mundo marcas as well as certain Cabaiguans. I never have tasted it in any Padron nor have I detected it in Ramon Allones. This suggests to me it is not universal to Cuban cigars.

I smoked some with approximately the same ages +/- 1 or 2 yrs, and the twang was there, but not so dominant, and with a much more rounded flavor. Much more preferable, and very pleasant.
I think your experience is not uncommon. As Mike remarked, 1-2 years is really still pretty youthful. However, its is enough time for initial settling in of residual fermentation byproducts. I can't personally say this is due to the dissipation of ammonia as apparently I am not all that sensitive to minute amounts of ammonia.

So my question could consist of two parts. Is the dominant twang something that is desired or is proper aging supposed to produce better balance? I.e., dominant twang equals needs more down time.
Depends what you call twang. If you enjoy it, then its diminution is not necessarily a desirable thing except in the case that the other pleasurable attributes increase to offset that. The only "rule" of cigar aging, if you could even call it that, is to try your favorite cigars over time and note the developmental stage that gives you the most pleasure. What's "right" for you is a the result of mindful experience that defines the intersection of your personal, innate propensities and social convention and learning.

Wilkey

 

[MadMonk]

Yes, Mikes answer helped and gave me a little more insight, and thank you Jfields as well. Both answers
are very helpful. Not having too much, if any, experience in this tobacco, I was hoping those with more experience could lend some insight; which you did.
I find the subject fascinating, and worthy of experimentation. While no hard fast rules seem to be applicable, there does seem to be information on conditions for storage, with a bit of consensus. What I found lacking was tasting notes at differant states or stages of evolution.
I see a bit of fun for myself as I explore this in more depth.

 

[MadMonk]

Hey! and Wilkey got one in as I was typing. Thank you as well.

Yes, I find that fresh flavor is the most intoxicating.
I do like your Acidic reference. Too much for me on the cigar that I ascribe a negative experience to.
Just like my tomato sauce, too much acidty is not desireable, but a little acidity goes a long way in balancing the flavor. But, it takes certain actions while cooking to minimize the acid.

I've seen your references, in other threads, to social convention and learning, and find that idea to be highly insightful, and thought provoking.

I've never been able to patiently age any NCs past a year or so before I smoke them. Since a short time before joining this community, I've made a conscious effort to at least try to save some for a two or three year period. This discussion adds to that resolve. Why, because I'm a very curious animal!

 

[dvickery]

MadMonk

good answers so far...allow me to add my observations on personally aging cuban cigars(buying with age may yield different results).

first i will state...cuban cigars with age have something i like(others may not)...i am a patient man...i have a big enough stash to wait.

the first 3 years is resting(a 3 year old cigar(to me)is not aged)...the mechanics are working themselves out.

at 3 years or so(with proper storage) the draw and burn should be good to perfect and no more juicy lipsting.

after 3 years is the wait for "balance"...strength(nicotine) increases and the twang decreases.

this is a point that has been debated before(do cigars increase/decrease in strength as they age???)my answer is nicotine increases slowly...while initial flavour/twang decreases slowly.i have NO habanos that have decreased in strength for (at least) the first 10 years (i believe mine are stored properly).

with the decrease in "twang" comes true complexity...other flavours become noticable.

balance (for me) comes at different ages...right now...i find '01 q'do coronas claros in berfect balance...upmann super coronas from '02 are close...bolivar coronas juniors are just barely "there" at 11 years...'01 punch rs#12 not even close etc etc...on a further note i find just about anything from '99 or older is pretty much ready for me(or to put it another way...i would not be afraid to open anything of mine from '99 or older).

another thing i have observed over the years...the smell of fresh cigars(that horse pee smell)changes to a tea kind of smell at some point...most of the cigars i have from the 80's have this "tea" smell now(not all of them tho).

aging cigars is not for everyone...as others have stated...do you want that twangy/acidy taste to go away???do you want more nicotine in your cigars???

for me...it is a lifelong journey it isnt(and never has been)about the destination.

this must be the longest post i have ever made on this board :whistling: :laugh: .

hope this helps a bit
derrek :whistling:

 

[Ginseng]

Derrek,

What a well-considered and clarifying post! Your thoughts on the "twang" seem to accord with Monk's impressions and in that sense, probably reflects the orthodox conception more accurately than my acidity perception. Funny how language, yet again, sits at the crux between wonderment and understanding.

Well done, gentlemen.

Wilkey

 

[MadMonk]

Wow Derrek, another GREAT answer. Thank you!

I have to tell you guys that this has been a great learning, refreshing, and thought provoking sort of experience for me. Thank you all for taking the time to try to help me get a better grasp on this subject.

 

[mrtapes]

Excellent & very informative post guys!
Thanks
Mark

 

[Smok'em]

my answer is nicotine increases slowly...while initial flavour/twang decreases slowly.i

Wow, great insight! I didn't understand though how nicotine increases over time. Can you please explain. Thanks.

 

[half full monty]

MadMonk

good answers so far...allow me to add my observations on personally aging cuban cigars(buying with age may yield different results).

first i will state...cuban cigars with age have something i like(others may not)...i am a patient man...i have a big enough stash to wait.

the first 3 years is resting(a 3 year old cigar(to me)is not aged)...the mechanics are working themselves out.

at 3 years or so(with proper storage) the draw and burn should be good to perfect and no more juicy lipsting.

after 3 years is the wait for "balance"...strength(nicotine) increases and the twang decreases.

this is a point that has been debated before(do cigars increase/decrease in strength as they age???)my answer is nicotine increases slowly...while initial flavour/twang decreases slowly.i have NO habanos that have decreased in strength for (at least) the first 10 years (i believe mine are stored properly).

with the decrease in "twang" comes true complexity...other flavours become noticable.

balance (for me) comes at different ages...right now...i find '01 q'do coronas claros in berfect balance...upmann super coronas from '02 are close...bolivar coronas juniors are just barely "there" at 11 years...'01 punch rs#12 not even close etc etc...on a further note i find just about anything from '99 or older is pretty much ready for me(or to put it another way...i would not be afraid to open anything of mine from '99 or older).

another thing i have observed over the years...the smell of fresh cigars(that horse pee smell)changes to a tea kind of smell at some point...most of the cigars i have from the 80's have this "tea" smell now(not all of them tho).

aging cigars is not for everyone...as others have stated...do you want that twangy/acidy taste to go away???do you want more nicotine in your cigars???

for me...it is a lifelong journey it isnt(and never has been)about the destination.

this must be the longest post i have ever made on this board :whistling: :laugh: .

hope this helps a bit
derrek :whistling:

Let me preface by stating I don't have anywhere near the inventory or experience, so I am no expert..........

But this is one of the best posts I've read on aging. Really nails it.

I've never thought if it as the strength coming out. More like the mask being removed. But I understand your point, just a different way of looking at it.

I'd also add that when you get a smoke that has reach potential, you just know it. I had a Fundadore from the mid 90's a couple of weeks ago that was just out of this world. Smooth, subtle, complex, one you just wish wouldn't end and unlike anything less than 10 years old. Not like it has to be that old to be good, just when they are they are unique, IMHO.

Great post.

 

[Fyodor]

MadMonk

good answers so far...allow me to add my observations on personally aging cuban cigars(buying with age may yield different results).

first i will state...cuban cigars with age have something i like(others may not)...i am a patient man...i have a big enough stash to wait.

the first 3 years is resting(a 3 year old cigar(to me)is not aged)...the mechanics are working themselves out.

at 3 years or so(with proper storage) the draw and burn should be good to perfect and no more juicy lipsting.

after 3 years is the wait for "balance"...strength(nicotine) increases and the twang decreases.

this is a point that has been debated before(do cigars increase/decrease in strength as they age???)my answer is nicotine increases slowly...while initial flavour/twang decreases slowly.i have NO habanos that have decreased in strength for (at least) the first 10 years (i believe mine are stored properly).

with the decrease in "twang" comes true complexity...other flavours become noticable.

balance (for me) comes at different ages...right now...i find '01 q'do coronas claros in berfect balance...upmann super coronas from '02 are close...bolivar coronas juniors are just barely "there" at 11 years...'01 punch rs#12 not even close etc etc...on a further note i find just about anything from '99 or older is pretty much ready for me(or to put it another way...i would not be afraid to open anything of mine from '99 or older).

another thing i have observed over the years...the smell of fresh cigars(that horse pee smell)changes to a tea kind of smell at some point...most of the cigars i have from the 80's have this "tea" smell now(not all of them tho).

aging cigars is not for everyone...as others have stated...do you want that twangy/acidy taste to go away???do you want more nicotine in your cigars???

for me...it is a lifelong journey it isnt(and never has been)about the destination.

this must be the longest post i have ever made on this board :whistling: :laugh: .

hope this helps a bit
derrek :whistling:

I'm certainly no expert but my experience is exactly the opposite of what Derek said about aging and strength. I've never had a deeply aged cigar that had any noticeable nicotine buzz to it. I've had endless fresh cigars that have.


Age a La Flor Dominicana Double Ligero Chisel 10 years and it's going to be ridiculously strong? I tend to think it would become much more mellow.

All I can say is I have smoked old cigars a few times and none had noticeable nicotine levels. Now fresh Opus X, Chisels, certain Camacho's, I often have become sick.


It's said strong cigars age the best, certainly not because the become stronger? Am I reading this post wrong?

 

[lucasbuck]

I have to agree with Derrek here though my experience is much less then his. I have been regularly smoking from boxes I bought 3-5 years ago and without exception the strength has picked up as the years have gone by. Besides that I smoke a lot of '97-'01 vintage which are almost always much stronger then freshies. While it is foolhardy to directly compare different vintages it is still interesting. Maybe the perception of strength varies from smoker to smoker because this is hotly debated. For me a nicely aged cigar exhibits complex and refined flavors that you rarely find in fresh stock. I don't mind a full bodied strong smoke as long as it's smooth and full flavored. A non-aged cigar is often harsh and bitter which I think many interpret as pure strength.