Adjustable Digital Hygrometers

[TampaSupremo]

Well, I finally decided to stop being a cheap bastid and fork over the coin for a digital hygro. I've read all kinds of things on this as well as other cigar sites. Ultimately, it seems like for every one on the market someone likes it and someone hates it. That's cool. If I get one and it's crap, I'll send it back. Anyway. Are the adjustables versions really all they are cracked up to be? Or if I fork over the money for say, a Diamond Crown, will that work out ok?

Thanks, folks.

TampaSupremo

 

[mr.mac]

I'm currently using two different digitals, one in my desktop and one in my cooler. The one in my desktop is from Cuban Crafters and the one in the cooler is from Heartfelt. They are both consistent, but not always accurate in my oppinion. For example, they both salt tested at 71% and in my humi and cooler are reading at 60-61%. I feel relatively confident that they are just both off by about 4%, since I have 65% heartfelt beads in both of my storage environments.

I got sick of loosing sleep over all of this. I figured that I trust the beads before I do the hygros. Also, seems to be everything is smoking well, although I did go through a stage when everything was a bit overhumidified.

Both the Cuban Crafters and Heartfelt hygros seem to be working well for a lot of other folks, but like you mentioned in your post, for everyone satisfied, there is someone else not satisfied. I would also suggest looking into the calibration kits for whatever hygo you do decide to go with.

Hope this helps...

mac

 

[Ginseng]

Adjustables are just digital units where you're given access to a trim potentiometer to adjust the offset reading. Accuracy and precision are expected to be no better than comparable non-adjustable digitals.

I wrote about my setup here.

Wilkey

 

[JHolmes763]

You can either do the math each time you check the humidity, or adjust it. :shrug:

 

[Ginseng]

You can either do the math each time you check the humidity, or adjust it. :shrug:

With non-adjustables, you only need to do the math once, after you salt test it. Write the adjusted target on a piece of masking tape and stick it to the unit. That is the value you'll look for. For example:

1. salt test - Let's say it reads 72% when it should be 75%. That means the offset (reading-actual) is -3 or 3% low.

2. If you want your humi at 65%, then write 62% on the masking tape. Thus, when you see a reading of 62% your actual humidity is 65%.

Wilkey

 

[mr.mac]

All this is very interesting. Wilkey - thanks for the link to your hygro-mania thread. In just the short time that I have been smoking/storing cigars, I have thought a great deal about the very elements in that thread. I have ultimately come to rely on a few things. First, as I mentioned, both hygro's salt tested in the same bag to the same rh. Second, in the environment with the heartfelt beads, they are reading at the same negative correction as they were in the salt test environment. I felt real comfortable for a few weeks. Then last night I switched the hygros, taking the one from the humi and switching it with the one from the cooler. Well I'll be damned, they are not reading the same at all. The one that was in the cooler now reads an additional 2-3% lower in the humi and the one in the humi is now reading 1-2% higher in the cooler. I'm curious to know the variables that have impacted the change from one environ to the next?

Also, I went ahead and ordered the Boveda calibration kit last night. Is it okay to put two hygros in one kit, privided they fit without force?

Wilkey - I noticed in your calibration box that you have both humipacks and salt. Do you think this would throw off rh in anyway?

mac

 

[Ginseng]

All this is very interesting. Wilkey - thanks for the link to your hygro-mania thread. In just the short time that I have been smoking/storing cigars, I have thought a great deal about the very elements in that thread. I have ultimately come to rely on a few things. First, as I mentioned, both hygro's salt tested in the same bag to the same rh. Second, in the environment with the heartfelt beads, they are reading at the same negative correction as they were in the salt test environment. I felt real comfortable for a few weeks. Then last night I switched the hygros, taking the one from the humi and switching it with the one from the cooler. Well I'll be damned, they are not reading the same at all. The one that was in the cooler now reads an additional 2-3% lower in the humi and the one in the humi is now reading 1-2% higher in the cooler. I'm curious to know the variables that have impacted the change from one environ to the next?

Also, I went ahead and ordered the Boveda calibration kit last night. Is it okay to put two hygros in one kit, privided they fit without force?

Wilkey - I noticed in your calibration box that you have both humipacks and salt. Do you think this would throw off rh in anyway?

mac

Hey Mac,

Let me make sure I'm understanding you right. Ha=hygro A, Hb=hygro B, C=cooler, H=humi, fictitious numbers for the example only.

1. Salt test Ha and Hb, both read X%
2. Test both in a container with beads, they also read X%
3. Ha in C reads Y%
4. Hb in H reads Z%
5. swap hygros
6. Ha in H reads Z-2.5%
7. Hb in C reads Y+1.5%

So in other words, both hygros read identically in the salt test and bead test conditions in some container. They also read a certain value in their original storage environments (C or H). But when swapped, they did not read the same as the hygro that was originally in that container? The critical question is whether Y=Z.

If you have beads in both containers, then you would have expected 65% (actual) and 65% (corrected) right?

I think that to get to the bottom of this, we'll need a little bit more information. First, how large are the desktop humi and the cooler? What quantity of beads do you have in each one? What state of hydration are the beads in each storage container?

I can't think if any reason why it would not be ok to calibrate two hygros in a single pack if they fit well. I don't think there should be a problem using a cal pack and salt in the same calibration container since they are both salt-based slurries.

Wilkey

 

[mr.mac]

Wilkey - your breakdown is correct. The exception is that I have not put both hygros in the same container yet (only salt test), which looking back only makes sence. This will be my next endeavor. Interestingly, when I switched the hygros back to their original environment, they adjusted back the original readings! Truthfully, I think that the heartfelt hygro is the one that is requiring more time to read accurately and also seems to be a bit more unstable.

To answer your questions, the desktop is roughly a 100 count. I have one 4oz tube in it which has just been charged at about 60% clear. The cooler is a 48qt which has 1/2 lb at the same charge, about 60% clear.

It probably wouldn't hurt for me to change the batteries to be on the safe side. None the less, both are within a couple of % from the original salt test, which I felt comfortable with. I will feel better when the Bodeva kit confirms my original findings.

There seems to be a few undetermined variables that are at work in the use of digital hygros in various environments. I will put both in one of the containers to ensure that they are both still reading the same rh in the same environ, as this seems to be the changing variable.

Damn... that research course that I took this summer is paying off already!

mac

 

[Ginseng]

Wilkey - your breakdown is correct. The exception is that I have not put both hygros in the same container yet (only salt test), which looking back only makes sence. This will be my next endeavor. Interestingly, when I switched the hygros back to their original environment, they adjusted back the original readings! Truthfully, I think that the heartfelt hygro is the one that is requiring more time to read accurately and also seems to be a bit more unstable.

To answer your questions, the desktop is roughly a 100 count. I have one 4oz tube in it which has just been charged at about 60% clear. The cooler is a 48qt which has 1/2 lb at the same charge, about 60% clear.

It probably wouldn't hurt for me to change the batteries to be on the safe side. None the less, both are within a couple of % from the original salt test, which I felt comfortable with. I will feel better when the Bodeva kit confirms my original findings.

There seems to be a few undetermined variables that are at work in the use of digital hygros in various environments. I will put both in one of the containers to ensure that they are both still reading the same rh in the same environ, as this seems to be the changing variable.

Damn... that research course that I took this summer is paying off already!

mac

Good info, Mac! Well done. I wish all inquiries had this level of completeness and precision. :thumbs:

Making sure you have fresh batteries in the hygros is always a good thing. I think, but have not really confirmed it, that as voltage drops, the RH reading drops as well. While each unit will have an offset value, they could also conceivably have different slopes as well. That is, although they may match at X%, readings may diverge in one direction above X and in the opposite direction below X.

It seems that the volumes are quite different between the two storage containers but that the volume of beads is only two-fold different. Stabilization in the environment, stratification of the air inside the container, opening and closing, and measurement refresh rate of the sensor device could all affect the readings you take at any given time.

Wilkey

 

[smellysell]

I was actually inspired by that same thread to do a little experiment when I got my Oregon Scientific hygro with an extra sensor. It's not Wilkey quality, but here's the results I got. I left both sensors in each environment at the same time for 24 hours, except the Boveda pack because they wouldn't both fit at the same time.

I think some of the discrepancies in part come from the fact that they only display whole numbers, for example, the wine cooler might have been 70.1 for #1 and 70.9 for #2, which in turn could lead to the Boveda being 72.6 for #1 and 73.4 for #2.

I'm not sure what the deal in the desktop was though. I'm a little concerned that the deviation changes at different humidity levels.

The salt test I just contribute to user error.

Any thoughts?

 

[mr.mac]

Wilkey - your breakdown is correct. The exception is that I have not put both hygros in the same container yet (only salt test), which looking back only makes sence. This will be my next endeavor. Interestingly, when I switched the hygros back to their original environment, they adjusted back the original readings! Truthfully, I think that the heartfelt hygro is the one that is requiring more time to read accurately and also seems to be a bit more unstable.

To answer your questions, the desktop is roughly a 100 count. I have one 4oz tube in it which has just been charged at about 60% clear. The cooler is a 48qt which has 1/2 lb at the same charge, about 60% clear.

It probably wouldn't hurt for me to change the batteries to be on the safe side. None the less, both are within a couple of % from the original salt test, which I felt comfortable with. I will feel better when the Bodeva kit confirms my original findings.

There seems to be a few undetermined variables that are at work in the use of digital hygros in various environments. I will put both in one of the containers to ensure that they are both still reading the same rh in the same environ, as this seems to be the changing variable.

Damn... that research course that I took this summer is paying off already!

mac

Good info, Mac! Well done. I wish all inquiries had this level of completeness and precision. :thumbs:

Making sure you have fresh batteries in the hygros is always a good thing. I think, but have not really confirmed it, that as voltage drops, the RH reading drops as well. While each unit will have an offset value, they could also conceivably have different slopes as well. That is, although they may match at X%, readings may diverge in one direction above X and in the opposite direction below X.

It seems that the volumes are quite different between the two storage containers but that the volume of beads is only two-fold different. Stabilization in the environment, stratification of the air inside the container, opening and closing, and measurement refresh rate of the sensor device could all affect the readings you take at any given time.

Wilkey

I have had both hygros in the cooler environ now for a couple of hours. One reads 59% (heartfelt) and the other 61% (cuban crafters). It seems that the heartfelt is now at a 6-7% correction... a little too much in my opinion. Will change the battery and recheck everything again later. Thanks for the mentorship in this endeavor Wilkey.

I know a lot of guys feel that this insistent need to have "accurate" hygros and rh levels is a little too much. My take on this is that if there is an optimal rh to store cigars, then I want to make sure that my storage environs are at that optimum level. I would much rather be safe than sorry...

mac

 

[Ginseng]

I was actually inspired by that same thread to do a little experiment when I got my Oregon Scientific hygro with an extra sensor. It's not Wilkey quality, but here's the results I got. I left both sensors in each environment at the same time for 24 hours, except the Boveda pack because they wouldn't both fit at the same time.

I think some of the discrepancies in part come from the fact that they only display whole numbers, for example, the wine cooler might have been 70.1 for #1 and 70.9 for #2, which in turn could lead to the Boveda being 72.6 for #1 and 73.4 for #2.

I'm not sure what the deal in the desktop was though. I'm a little concerned that the deviation changes at different humidity levels.

The salt test I just contribute to user error.

Any thoughts?

Damn, Smelly. Nice work.

I hadn't considered roundoff error but it certainly could be a factor that alone accounts for up to 1 whole number difference in reading (no decimal point). So, these would be the cooler, wine cooler, and Boveda conditions.

Now, then, since we're considering sources or error we need to keep in mind the accuracy and precision of these devices which is typically 2% and not better than 1.5%.

Wilkey

 

[mr.mac]

I was actually inspired by that same thread to do a little experiment when I got my Oregon Scientific hygro with an extra sensor. It's not Wilkey quality, but here's the results I got. I left both sensors in each environment at the same time for 24 hours, except the Boveda pack because they wouldn't both fit at the same time.

I think some of the discrepancies in part come from the fact that they only display whole numbers, for example, the wine cooler might have been 70.1 for #1 and 70.9 for #2, which in turn could lead to the Boveda being 72.6 for #1 and 73.4 for #2.

I'm not sure what the deal in the desktop was though. I'm a little concerned that the deviation changes at different humidity levels.

The salt test I just contribute to user error.

Any thoughts?

I am assuming that the Desktop and the cooler are holding differnt rh beads (or whatever source of humidity being used). Is it me or do these numbers seem to be a bit inconsistent... aka unreliable.

Good point on the decimal. That would make up for a percentage here and there.

mac

 

[smellysell]

Now, then, since we're considering sources or error we need to keep in mind the accuracy and precision of these devices which is typically 2% and not better than 1.5%.

Wilkey

I might just not understnad, but shouldn't it still be the same at all RH?

I am assuming that the Desktop and the cooler are holding differnt rh beads (or whatever source of humidity being used). Is it me or do these numbers seem to be a bit inconsistent... aka unreliable.

Good point on the decimal. That would make up for a percentage here and there.

mac

Yep, the cooler and desktop have 70% beads and the wine cooler has KLH that was supposed to be conditioned to 65% (which I will be replacing with beads).

The desktop concerns me because the one is higher after being lower in all the other places, not sure how to explain that one.

 

[Ginseng]

Now, then, since we're considering sources or error we need to keep in mind the accuracy and precision of these devices which is typically 2% and not better than 1.5%.

Wilkey

I might just not understnad, but shouldn't it still be the same at all RH?

Well, accuracy is usually given as a +/- value so I don't think it's a given that the offset from actual will be consistent. But honestly I don't know enough about the principle of operation of the device to speak with any deeper degree of understanding.

I am assuming that the Desktop and the cooler are holding differnt rh beads (or whatever source of humidity being used). Is it me or do these numbers seem to be a bit inconsistent... aka unreliable.

Good point on the decimal. That would make up for a percentage here and there.

mac

Yep, the cooler and desktop have 70% beads and the wine cooler has KLH that was supposed to be conditioned to 65% (which I will be replacing with beads).

The desktop concerns me because the one is higher after being lower in all the other places, not sure how to explain that one.

So if we are to trust the salt test, then S1 has an offset of -3% and S2 has an offset of -5%. That is, add 3 and 5, respectively, to the readout to calculate the actual RH. We should then expect the cooler to give an S1 reading of 67% and and S2 reading of 65%. What you got though, indicates S2 is off with an offset of -2 instead of -5.

In the desktop, you'd expect S1 to read 67% but we see 66%. I'd say that is about as good as it's going to get. You'd expect S2 to read 65% and we see 64%. Again, about as good as one might expect.

The Boveda cal pack replicates the S1 offset of -3 so that's good. It gives an S2 offset of -2 which matches the performance of that unit in the cooler but not the desktop.

So, based on all this, I'd hazard a guess that something might have been amiss in either the salt-S2 test condition or the desktop S2 condition. I'd say get new batteries, and replicate the salt, Boveda, and cooler, desktop test conditions and see where it all comes out. The sequence in which you carried out these tests might potentially help us discriminate whether the failure occurred in salt-S2 or desktop-S2.

Wilkey

 

[MX]

WOW

Us slower foke from, like me (I have a TX education) just use trust, Devine Intervention, and smokeability.

I dialed the adj hydro in, and I trust the beads
If some goes wrong, there is Someone looking out for me
If it smokes gud(good) it must be gud.

Tim

 

[thrillafrommanila]

I have 3 digi hygrometers.

2 are western digital hygrometers and 1 Madeline digi hygrometer. The Western ones kick butt and are very accurate and adjustable. I have beads with them too, so they are either off by like +/- 2%. The Madeline is another story it takes a while for it to calibrate, and i had problems with it the beginning but works good now. It is not adjustable. It's usually off by like +/1 5%. Good Luck

 

[Shooter]

If you have an adjustable you need to only test it. Then all you have to do with a suspect one is put em both in a sealed compartment and see how the suspect one pairs up to the adjustable one. Works for me. No messy salt.

 

[TampaSupremo]

Good thing I'm such a tight-fisted sunuvabitch. I'll only have one hygrometer to worry about.

See, I that since adjustables have more bits in 'em, that's one more thing that can go wrong.

Guess it's time to just fork over the coin and get my hands dirty.

TampaSupremo

 

[mr.mac]

All this is very interesting. Wilkey - thanks for the link to your hygro-mania thread. In just the short time that I have been smoking/storing cigars, I have thought a great deal about the very elements in that thread. I have ultimately come to rely on a few things. First, as I mentioned, both hygro's salt tested in the same bag to the same rh. Second, in the environment with the heartfelt beads, they are reading at the same negative correction as they were in the salt test environment. I felt real comfortable for a few weeks. Then last night I switched the hygros, taking the one from the humi and switching it with the one from the cooler. Well I'll be damned, they are not reading the same at all. The one that was in the cooler now reads an additional 2-3% lower in the humi and the one in the humi is now reading 1-2% higher in the cooler. I'm curious to know the variables that have impacted the change from one environ to the next?

Also, I went ahead and ordered the Boveda calibration kit last night. Is it okay to put two hygros in one kit, privided they fit without force?

Wilkey - I noticed in your calibration box that you have both humipacks and salt. Do you think this would throw off rh in anyway?

mac

Just a little update... I went ahead and got the Boveda kit, put both hygros in for 24 hours and the results......

bout the same as the salt test. One off by 4% and one off by 5%. Just as I had origianlly suspected and observed in the beaded environment. Oh yeah... changed batterys.... same thing.

This confirmed what I think I already knew.... buy beads... forget about it!

mac