Are H. Upmann Monarchs and Monarcas the same thing?

[rawrr]

I am confused. ???
I find both H. Upmann Monarchs and Monarcas reviews from one cigar review website, and their sizes are both listed as Julieta No. 2, but I can only find data about Monarchs in most other cigar databases.

Are they the same? If so, why does it has different names?

 

[CigarStone]

Monarchs are butterflies

Actually, H. Upmann has a Monarch which is machine made and a Monarca which is hand made......same vitola.

Edited to add.......I will be anxious to get the definitive answer from Wilkey

 

[Ginseng]

This is a question for the Illustrated Encyclopedia of Post Revolution Havana Cigars, otherwise known as the MRN book.

If this hasn't been answered by the time I'm done with my morning read/smoke/breakfast, I'll go look it up for you, Chun.

FWIW, I have tubos and dressed box cigars labeled "Monarch" whereas the only "Monarca" I have is the fabled Tang Monarca in SLB.

Wilkey

Note: I see that Jeff already answered but I'm afraid he's not entirely correct in this case as the tubo Monarch is clearly fully hand made.

 

[Mike33]

I am confused. ???
I find both H. Upmann Monarchs and Monarcas reviews from one cigar review website, and their sizes are both listed as Julieta No. 2, but I can only find data about Monarchs in most other cigar databases.

Are they the same? If so, why does it has different names?

It is the same cigar. The correct term is Monarchs, but many people use Monarcas as a substitute name for them. I am not sure if the two terms are interchangeable or if they mean the same thing, but they are referred to differently in MRN as well. Jeff might be thinking of the tubed Monarchs being machine made, but they are handmade just like the un-tubed version.

Wilkey was right that the Tangs are called Monarcas, and so are the now discontinued Punch Monarcas. All are of the Juieta #2 variety (Churchills).

 

[Ginseng]

Mike,

I think this would be a good question to put to MRN's butler, don't you think?

One is an English word and the other is Spanish. But why the differentiation?

It might be useful to put up the most recent photo of my tubos collection. In the photo that follows, the text is hard to make out but the Upmann is a Monarch and the Punch are Churchills and Monarcas. I have not found a Punch Monarchs tubo.

Wilkey

 

[indyrob]

Monarchs are butterflies

Actually, H. Upmann has a Monarch which is machine made and a Monarca which is hand made......same vitola.

Edited to add.......I will be anxious to get the definitive answer from Wilkey

I think that Cigarstone got his info from the review site, which does list it as machine made.

The difference might just be a regional thing. Spain is a heavy consumer of cigars, so it might be that the Spanish version (Monarca) gets the different label than the Kings English version of Monarch.

 

[Ginseng]

Interesting conjecture, Rob. Taking a quick glance through the vitolas de salida list, I see only a smattering of Spanish names. I haven't looked closely but it might be interesting to see if there is any correlation between the prevalance of these names and their distribution to the different world regions historically.

Wilkey

Chun,
I appreciate the vote of confidence. But I do believe that the answer to this question is one that is buried in history and tradition of these brands and reaches well back into the Cubatobaco era prior to the formation of the relatively modern entity Habanos S.A. Honestly it would take some digging by those far more steeped in the history going back to the Revolution (and probably before that) to come up with an explanation that is close to definitive. However, having a sense for how things worked back then, the answer might just be as trivial as some official deciding on one name and then someone else making the decision again with the other name.

 

[cigar smoke]

Another interesting thing regarding the Punch Monarcas is the tubes are marked Monarcas while the box itself states 25 Monarchs on the ones I currently have. I also seem to recall other Punch boxes with Monarcas printed on it as well. Since the boxes are the exact size for both it is possible that partially labeled boxes intended for Upmann were used for Punch. It may very well be that both terms are interchangable. Whether Monarchs or Monarcas they are all hand made for each brand.

Bob

 

[grateful1]

I was thinking the same thing as Rob.

What are the primary markets for the cigar.

Taste and sales, region to region, has been known to be different.

Maybe the 'sales' factor plays a roll in the naming?

That seems some what obvious.

 

[Ginseng]

Another interesting thing regarding the Punch Monarcas is the tubes are marked Monarcas while the box itself states 25 Monarchs on the ones I currently have. I also seem to recall other Punch boxes with Monarcas printed on it as well. Since the boxes are the exact size for both it is possible that partially labeled boxes intended for Upmann were used for Punch. It may very well be that both terms are interchangable. Whether Monarchs or Monarcas they are all hand made for each brand.

Bob

Oy! Cubans make my head spin!

Thanks for the additional perspective, Bob.

Wilkey

 

[CigarStone]

Monarchs are butterflies

Actually, H. Upmann has a Monarch which is machine made and a Monarca which is hand made......same vitola.

Edited to add.......I will be anxious to get the definitive answer from Wilkey

Read more, post less :whistling:

 

[rawrr]

Wow, I learned so much today!
It really amazes me that people here can tackle a problem with so many different angles.
Thank you so much!

 

[indyrob]

If you really think about the regional spin, look at the different ways used to describe aluminum tube.

There are at least 2 (English and Spanish) versions that I have seen.
Aluminum Tube
Tubos de Aluminio

 

[Arrow111]

any ideas on how these are smoking compared to one another (assuming similar production years)? =)