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The Cuban "Mono-Blend"?

moki

moki

el Presidente
Joined
Dec 16, 2003
Messages
9,418
Location
Rochester, NY USA
Whilst thumbing through the Winter 2007 issue of Cigar Press magazine, I ran across an interesting article called "Cuban Cigars: Worth the Hype?" (page 62).

I know what you're thinking "Oh christ, not another Cuban vs. non-Cuban debate" -- but that's not what interested me about the article.

What interested me were the two following paragraphs:

Today, the only thing that really differentiates Cuban brands is their names. The fact that most people don't know any better allows Cuba to charge a hundred dollars for one box, and then slap a world-famous name on another from the same rolling table and charge four times that.

I know what you're thinking... you have smoked a lot of different Cuban cigars before and thought they tastes different, and they probably did. But when is the last time you remember smoking a particular Cuban brand that was consistent - box after box year after year?

In a word... "wow". That's quite a statement to be making. It would be easy for me to discount this particular passage as misinformed or biased or with some ulterior motive... except that I've heard this before.

I have heard from more than a few people -- who don't know each other -- that have spent time at some of the non-tourist oriented cigar factories in Cuba, and I've heard a disturbingly consistent story.

That story is that at least at some factories, cigars are rolled in a "mono-blend" -- there's really just one blend of tobacco used on a given day, and cigars are color sorted into boxes of various marcas.

On the face of it, this seems absurd. Cigars are the number 2 export from Cuba, so they are economically important, and with the storied history they have in Cuba, why on earth would they screw something like that up?

Still, hearing the same kind of thing from a number of people makes me wonder... your thoughts?
 
To clarify, I'm talking about 2002 and later productions.

Clearly this can't be the case for all marcas... some do indeed have distinctive tastes... but I could see it for certain other marcas that have been remarkably inconsistent and "muddy" in terms of their taste profile. Montes, RyJs, Punch, even H.Upmann and a few other select marcas, I could see this as happening.
 
I think that to properly and fairly assess this accusation, first we must define the unit of analysis. Is it the factory? Is it the region inclusive of several factories? Is it the marca or specific vitolas in a marca? Or perhaps a vitola across marcas? Unless and until the unit of analysis is properly defined, progress against this claim, if any, will be slow to non-existent.

I'm not saying that there is or is not something to it, just that until we know what the key parameters are involved in cigar production and how they relate to the factors I identified above, all we have are apocryphal accounts. Granted, over time as more accounts arise from verifiable sources, cumulatively they may begin to carry weight, but are we there yet?

Wilkey
 
Ginseng said:
I think that to properly and fairly assess this accusation, first we must define the unit of analysis. Is it the factory? Is it the region inclusive of several factories? Is it the marca or specific vitolas in a marca? Or perhaps a vitola across marcas? Unless and until the unit of analysis is properly defined, progress against this claim, if any, will be slow to non-existent.

I'm not saying that there is or is not something to it, just that until we know what the key parameters are involved in cigar production and how they relate to the factors I identified above, all we have are apocryphal accounts. Granted, over time as more accounts arise from verifiable sources, cumulatively they may begin to carry weight, but are we there yet?

Wilkey
Click to expand...

I think the answer to that is "no, we're not there yet" -- but that was part of the point in my posting this. I was interested to hear if anyone had first-hand knowledge of seeing this happen.

I know a number of people whom I find personally credible that say they did indeed see it. I'm interested if anyone else has as well.

How widespread is it? It probably depends on how much control there is at a particular factory.

I find this pretty stunning... if true, it explains the inconsistency issues that we've been seeing... and it also makes a mockery of any preference for a particular marca's taste profile.

It seems so incredibly stupid, given how sensitive the connoisseur market is, that such things would even be contemplated, let along put into action.

If this is indeed true, and it is indeed widespread... why bother? It's like buying mystery meat.

.....

Sales & Revenue

Circa 2007, the seven global brands reportedly account for around 81% of the total Habanos sales:
Montecristo .............. 23%
Romeo y Julieta .........15%
Partagas .....................12%
Jose L Piedra .............12%
Cohiba .......................11%
Hoyo de Monterrey ..... 5%
H Upmann ................... 3%
Of the others, Quintero is 5% and Trinidad is 2%. The remaining 18 brands account for the 12% balance (an average of 0.7% each).

Of all the brands, Cohiba is the most profitable, with 11% of sales accounting for 20% of all revenue. The top selling Montecristo accounts for 29% of all revenue. These two brands account for almost 50% of all Habanos revenue.
 
Ginseng said:
I think that to properly and fairly assess this accusation, first we must define the unit of analysis. Is it the factory? Is it the region inclusive of several factories? Is it the marca or specific vitolas in a marca? Or perhaps a vitola across marcas? Unless and until the unit of analysis is properly defined, progress against this claim, if any, will be slow to non-existent.

I'm not saying that there is or is not something to it, just that until we know what the key parameters are involved in cigar production and how they relate to the factors I identified above, all we have are apocryphal accounts. Granted, over time as more accounts arise from verifiable sources, cumulatively they may begin to carry weight, but are we there yet?

Wilkey
Click to expand...
None of the above. As a cold warrior I can tell you, ya just can't trust the Commie sons a bitches.

Doc.
 
Well, to compare two vitolas from different marcas...

The PLPC tastes totally different to me than the Monte #4, and the PSP2 tastes different from the Monte #2. On another side, the Dips and the Montes are very similar in tastes to me. Go figure.

A certain gentleman with Kato as his avatar has noted several times that he noticed that most cigars are surprisingly indistinct from each other in terms of tastes... except for the El Rey Del Mundo, which he favors. I suppose with all these brands being made in the same factories, it wouldn't be unimaginable if a roller accidentally mis categorized cigars of similar vitolas, but that in itself is just conjecture.
 
Dave said:
Well, to compare two vitolas from different marcas...

The PLPC tastes totally different to me than the Monte #4, and the PSP2 tastes different from the Monte #2. On another side, the Dips and the Montes are very similar in tastes to me. Go figure.
Click to expand...

Don't misunderstand me -- I'm not stating that this is happening to all cigars across various marcas. I think that based on what I've been told, it has more to do with the factory in question, and the level of control/supervision at said factory. It may also have to do with how much of a particular tobacco they have.

For instance, if they run out of a tobacco that needs to be used to make the Montecristo blend, does anyone believe that they just stop producing Montecristo cigars? I highly doubt it... they likely just grab some substitute tobacco/blend, band it a Montecristo, and away it goes.

Remember that this is cash-strapped Cuba. Anything, no matter how incredible, may very well be going on. I will confess that the first time this information was related to me, I didn't believe it at all. The more it gets repeated to me -- by credible people -- the more it seems possible.
 
This makes sense somewhat that some marcas are similar if not the same. Such as my hatred for Monte/Punch/HdM, which all taste remarkably similar to me. It would explain that to me. However, I agree with Dave and Andrew's rebuttal that there has to be distinctions between marcas because a Monte certainly doesn't taste like a Partagas...
 
Today, the only thing that really differentiates Cuban brands is their names. The fact that most people don't know any better allows Cuba to charge a hundred dollars for one box, and then slap a world-famous name on another from the same rolling table and charge four times that.

I know what you're thinking... you have smoked a lot of different Cuban cigars before and thought they tastes different, and they probably did. But when is the last time you remember smoking a particular Cuban brand that was consistent - box after box year after year?
Click to expand...

This is really, really brazen commentary. To imply, like these paragraphs do, that all Cuban cigar brands have the same blend is just ridiculous. It tries to back off this in the second paragraph by implying that they are not consistent and this is because they are all the same blend? Give me a freakin' break. There is any multitude of other factors that would have to do with inconsistency. It also does not make any sense as the VAST consensus is the quality and consistency of Cuban cigars today are at a level not seen since the early '90s. I love the part about "well, you may think you know a certain brand, but you really are just lying to yourself." I have yet to taste a Ramon Allones that tastes anything like a Montecristo, or vise versa.

I don't doubt there there are certain factories that AT TIMES will use the same blend across marcas, but to imply that they are all the same is pure B.S. No doubt, other factories in other countries do the same. I also have heard this rumor from people that I respect and I take it for what it was given to me as; a rumor. All this article does is further a rumor with no credible evidence and utter arrogance.

Edited to add: This is unbelievably disrespectful to ANYONE who has anything to do with Cuban cigar production. From the HSA executives down to the corner shop owner and the average smoker...this article implies that all these people are either complete idiots (smokers and retailers) and/or are trying to mislead cigar lovers. I can't believe a magazine would publish this crap.

It is one thing to start a discussion as Andrew has to ask for any first hand knowledge or to bring up a rumor, but to put something like this in print with no preface or background is shocking.
 
Mike33 said:
Today, the only thing that really differentiates Cuban brands is their names. The fact that most people don't know any better allows Cuba to charge a hundred dollars for one box, and then slap a world-famous name on another from the same rolling table and charge four times that.

I know what you're thinking... you have smoked a lot of different Cuban cigars before and thought they tastes different, and they probably did. But when is the last time you remember smoking a particular Cuban brand that was consistent - box after box year after year?
Click to expand...

This is really, really brazen commentary. To imply, like these paragraphs do, that all Cuban cigar brands have the same blend is just ridiculous. It tries to back off this in the second paragraph by implying that they are not consistent and this is because they are all the same blend? Give me a freakin' break. There is any multitude of other factors that would have to do with inconsistency. It also does not make any sense as the VAST consensus is the quality and consistency of Cuban cigars today are at a level not seen since the early '90s. I love the part about "well, you may think you know a certain brand, but you really are just lying to yourself." I have yet to taste a Ramon Allones that tastes anything like a Montecristo, or vise versa.

I don't doubt there there are certain factories that AT TIMES will use the same blend across marcas, but to imply that they are all the same is pure B.S. No doubt, other factories in other countries do the same. I also have heard this rumor from people that I respect and I take it for what it was given to me as; a rumor. All this article does is further a rumor with no credible evidence and utter arrogance.

Edited to add: This is unbelievably disrespectful to ANYONE who has anything to do with Cuban cigar production. From the HSA executives down to the corner shop owner and the average smoker...this article implies that all these people are either complete idiots (smokers and retailers) and/or are trying to mislead cigar lovers. I can't believe a magazine would publish this crap.

It is one thing to start a discussion as Andrew has to ask for any first hand knowledge or to bring up a rumor, but to put something like this in print with no preface or background is shocking.
Click to expand...

Oh, I agree... it's not exactly a gentle commentary. Interestingly, the author's name is not listed...

But in fairness, I did take just those two paragraphs from the article, because they were what caught my attention. I agree with you that there's no way there is one blend across all cigars. It's interesting to speculate, though, how widespread it might be.
 
I've said in the past that many Cubans taste very similar to me and that's how the whole Blind taste test thing got started. Unfortunately Moki doesn't seem to buy those "mono-blends" so I did rather poorly. :laugh: Some marcas are distinctly different and are consistently different than the rest but a lot of them to me are practically the same cigar. And I for one enjoy the so called "mono-blend", if there is one, so it doesn't bother me much. I buy the some what cheaper cigars and I'm ussually happy. Take it for what it's worth.
 
I can see in a pinch/rush/hurry that a pallet of this has to be used instead of the intended leaf if they come up short, happens all the time in places without strict QC.

but I think we can all agree that all CC's are not all the same with different bands.
 
audilicious said:
I can see in a pinch/rush/hurry that a pallet of this has to be used instead of the intended leaf if they come up short, happens all the time in places without strict QC.

but I think we can all agree that all CC's are not all the same with different bands.
Click to expand...

Certainly not all. But how many are, and what level of "mono-blending" is considered "okay" with people who are shelling out good money for what they think is a specific blend of cigar?
 
I don't know, and it's definitely unacceptable, although I'm sure it happens, hopefully more more rarely than as a standard procedure.

but if in your testing you come across a low price replacement with the same mono-blend as a CoRo let me know!
 
moki said:
Mike33 said:
Today, the only thing that really differentiates Cuban brands is their names. The fact that most people don't know any better allows Cuba to charge a hundred dollars for one box, and then slap a world-famous name on another from the same rolling table and charge four times that.

I know what you're thinking... you have smoked a lot of different Cuban cigars before and thought they tastes different, and they probably did. But when is the last time you remember smoking a particular Cuban brand that was consistent - box after box year after year?
Click to expand...

This is really, really brazen commentary. To imply, like these paragraphs do, that all Cuban cigar brands have the same blend is just ridiculous. It tries to back off this in the second paragraph by implying that they are not consistent and this is because they are all the same blend? Give me a freakin' break. There is any multitude of other factors that would have to do with inconsistency. It also does not make any sense as the VAST consensus is the quality and consistency of Cuban cigars today are at a level not seen since the early '90s. I love the part about "well, you may think you know a certain brand, but you really are just lying to yourself." I have yet to taste a Ramon Allones that tastes anything like a Montecristo, or vise versa.

I don't doubt there there are certain factories that AT TIMES will use the same blend across marcas, but to imply that they are all the same is pure B.S. No doubt, other factories in other countries do the same. I also have heard this rumor from people that I respect and I take it for what it was given to me as; a rumor. All this article does is further a rumor with no credible evidence and utter arrogance.

Edited to add: This is unbelievably disrespectful to ANYONE who has anything to do with Cuban cigar production. From the HSA executives down to the corner shop owner and the average smoker...this article implies that all these people are either complete idiots (smokers and retailers) and/or are trying to mislead cigar lovers. I can't believe a magazine would publish this crap.

It is one thing to start a discussion as Andrew has to ask for any first hand knowledge or to bring up a rumor, but to put something like this in print with no preface or background is shocking.
Click to expand...

Oh, I agree... it's not exactly a gentle commentary. Interestingly, the author's name is not listed...

But in fairness, I did take just those two paragraphs from the article, because they were what caught my attention. I agree with you that there's no way there is one blend across all cigars. It's interesting to speculate, though, how widespread it might be.
Click to expand...

I really think that is being too kind Andrew. If there are other parts of the article that give a build-up to these paragraphs and put it into context, then that may be different. The fact that it is un-authored is not surprising because it is putting forth a rumor and passing it off as a fact. Makes you wonder about the motives. It's like the National Enquirer of cigars....
 
Reminds me of Fox's "It's been said" and "According to knowledgeable sources".

I think there is a "Colonel of Truth", however. ;)

The Punch Punch may be a Series A that didn't quite make the grade.

But I do not think a Trini Reyes is an off Sig I or vice versa.
 
There have obviously been quality control issues with ISOMs in the past and I am sure that the Cuban cigar industry still suffers from it's share of problems just as all industries do. However, all of this stuff from the article that Moki posted is just rumor, innuendo, and gossip. I have not seen anything in print anywhere that presents much info on it at all and certainly nothing definitive. Until there is evidence beyond the sketchiest of the circumstantial, it's all a bunch of hooey to me.

Like they say on the Internet, without pictures it didn't happen ;)
 
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