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The Ethical Rebounds of Cigars born of Dubious Origins

Dave said:
Cards&Gars said:
Dave... Hi...Kelly here. Nice to meet you. :)

Now Dave... you are not in the intelligence business. If you tell us...you won't have to kill us. - well, maybe SOME of us-
(But not me.) ;) Either you are being waaaay to ambiguous or we are all too obtuse.
I think we are all big boys and girls here.. (...er...some bigger than others...I suppose.) , so give us the scoop, The Dealio, The Dilly, The 411, ...don't make us guess. Thankee Mucho.

C&G ..."I am the boss, I need the info."
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Ok, I'm going to have to kill you now.... :sign:


No seriously, this isn't meant to be a guessing game about the cigar. Hell, I can't even tell you the country(s) or origin and the vitolas because that would actually give it away, and I fear that revealing the facts publicly might cause some divisions amongst fellow brothers here caused by differences in opinion. These are great people, and it is a great cigar.

The question of the thread though... is a cigar just a cigar? Or does the idea behind the cigar bear more considerable significance?

Some more questions:

If it is not black and white, where does the gray start and end? How to judge a product from it's history? Does owning a DVD give you the right to make a DVD rip out of it (for comparative analogy to the cigar question)?
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Mmm talk about opening the flood gates, one mans morality dose not match another's. This is a very good thing as it keeps us check and sharing our personal experiences on how we came to form our opinion and morality. One person see's a mink coat and screams cruelty to animals. Another is a farmer who has dealt with minks and can tell you there actually very vicious and aggressive animals. The wild ones are like coyotes and considered a nuisance thus them being used for fur doesn't bother them. Who's right and who's wrong? Thats for you to decide. Cigars like any thing else has a rich history of which most are very proud and people like myself enjoy reading. A Cigar equates to its history or lack there of. If theres circumstances around the history of the cigar that may represent it poorly it may indeed be one to avoid.
 
Dave said:
Ok, I'm going to have to kill you now.... :sign:
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:laugh: OK...THAT was a good retort! :laugh:

Dave said:
No seriously, this isn't meant to be a guessing game about the cigar. Hell, I can't even tell you the country(s) or origin and the vitolas because that would actually give it away, and I fear that revealing the facts publicly might cause some divisions amongst fellow brothers here caused by differences in opinion. These are great people, and it is a great cigar.

The question of the thread though... is a cigar just a cigar? Or does the idea behind the cigar bear more considerable significance?

Some more questions:

If it is not black and white, where does the gray start and end? How to judge a product from it's history? Does owning a DVD give you the right to make a DVD rip out of it (for comparative analogy to the cigar question)?
Click to expand...

Although I understand why the availabilty or "rarity" of cigars makes them collectable/desirable/more expensive/more valuable, I will never buy into the hype. (...well...maybe a little.) It is kinda cool to own something -I am being honest here- that is hard to get. But in the end... a cigar has to taste good (To Me) if I am going to keep buying them. I would much rather my favorite cigar be available all the time and for under $1.50.
Cigars are kind of like food to me... it has got to taste good for me to buy it...and I will pay top dollar for excellent quality. I can enjoy a nice aged filet at $30 the same as I can enjoy a $2 plate of Arroz Con Pollo. But they both have to taste good.

Bottom line: If I no likey... I no keepy. No matter what the cost or hype.

Oh, and Personally, I buy cigars so that I can smoke them and enjoy them. They do make some really cool looking cigars out there...shaped like footballs, chilli peppers, bats, etc... but I will never buy them because "I" could not sit down and enjoy them with a glass of Zaya. BUT...I really do think that they look cool and kindof admire those that can find and want them. I suppose it depends on what your personal objectives are in the cigar buying/collecting biz.

C&G... I just like what I like. :D
 
You're right Dave, and I'll never buy another Red Dot Cohiba! :p

More seriously, I find it difficult to form an informed opinion without more detail.

That said, if someone is rolling cigars under someone else's brand, or is using a popular roller's name to sell cigars that roller didn't make, I don't see any reason not to buy "correct" original cigars if their provenance is rock solid. Buying the knockoffs would not be an option.

Edited because they're and their are not the same thing. :whistling:
 
Too nebulous. Too ambiguous. Not even enough of a logical or informational substructure for an assessment of the point (which was???) to be formed. It's all inference and no meat.

I'm sorry, Dave. I couldn't help you on this and I wanted to give it a try. Why not take this to PM with someone you can trust to hold this information in confidence.

Wilkey
 
Dave, like others, I've been scratching my head on this one. The only scenario I can come up with that might fit your dilemma is this:

Suppose someone rolls a cigar (culebra-type perhaps) that is shaped in the form of a swastika. Are you asking if we would consider this just another cigar? Or if we would consider the ideology for the cigar before deciding to own and/or smoke it?

If that is your question, then I would be forced by my conscience to consider the "reason" the cigar was rolled and would decline to own or smoke it. If it is rolled with the intent of sending a "message", then it is not "just a cigar".
 
LOL @ BBS

I wondered if it was related to that, as there was an issue on another board, but I don't know why country of origin would be a giveaway in that case...
 
Here is the point/question/whatever: Lets say I commission a roller in Miami or Cuba or Guatemala or Shanghai or Mogadishu to create a cigar, to be released in limited quantities as I desire. This cigar turns out fabulous! It turns out so good that despite the fact I don't commission more, the roller uses the blend/vitola I commissioned him to create to roll many more cigars and sell them under the same name.

As an entirely imaginary example, lets say a fuente roller used some of the rarest fuente tobacco and wrapper that is so desired to make a bunch of Opus maduros, without fuente's approval, and started flipping them. I love opus maduros and someone offers me one. And then....

In both examples I described, the cigar is the 'same' as the original in terms of smoking quality, taste, etc. but one version of the cigar is official and the other is effectively a hijacked version.
Would people feel ok smoking the hijacked version, knowing my name and affiliation with said cigar were in fact being undermined by its very creation?
 
BlindedByScience said:
A guess....:

T_b__d_......

Wanna buy a vowel....??... :whistling:

Edit - got all the letters this time..... :p
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ROTFLMAO...Tom, you got to stop cracking me up and...

Dave, you speak in forked tongue and OH, don't forget C&G, hell, some of this thread appears like a secret society or worse, a deity :laugh: :whistling: :laugh:

Brian
 
You are on the right track Phil.

insight said:
Here is the point/question/whatever: Lets say I commission a roller in Miami or Cuba or Guatemala or Shanghai or Mogadishu to create a cigar, to be released in limited quantities as I desire. This cigar turns out fabulous! It turns out so good that despite the fact I don't commission more, the roller uses the blend/vitola I commissioned him to create to roll many more cigars and sell them under the same name.

As an entirely imaginary example, lets say a fuente roller used some of the rarest fuente tobacco and wrapper that is so desired to make a bunch of Opus maduros, without fuente's approval, and started flipping them. I love opus maduros and someone offers me one. And then....

In both examples I described, the cigar is the 'same' as the original in terms of smoking quality, taste, etc. but one version of the cigar is official and the other is effectively a hijacked version.
Would people feel ok smoking the hijacked version, knowing my name and affiliation with said cigar were in fact being undermined by its very creation?
Click to expand...
 
One day as I was walking the bank of the river behind my house, I came upon a frog who was smokin' a most interesting cigar. It was in the shape of the old style figs. As he puffed away, the smoke bellowed into clouds of rainbows and stardust and the aroma wofting from that stick was intoxicating.

I approached the frog and asked, "Hey bud, whatcha' you smokin?"
He replied, "A ceegar."
I asked, "Where'd you get it?"
He replied, "I roll em' myself. I got lot's of em'"
I asked, "Wanna share?"
He said, "I will grant you your wish, but if I give you one you must never tell a soul where you got it. If you do your balls will fall off!"
I said, " In that case I don't want it 'cause if I smoked it and it was the best ciagr I ever I had, I would want to share where I got it with my BOTL's at CP."

The End
 
A lot of times, I hate myself for not being able to produce concise thoughts without being too cryptic. Being able to formulate one's own opinion based on the immediate knowledge is a great freedom, and yet the idea itself is very contradictory because it often limits people based upon how others would react to that original opinion.

Then on the other hand, I hate how people might misread an idea into something else and the whole objective becomes misconstrued, developing into a whole separate matter. I guess as human being's, we instinctively can't base things just on ideas alone, but rather need to know of, or more of, an identifiable recognizable tangible object. This whole obsession with intuition might lead to another post... it is what it is. Unfortunately, this is not a hunt for a cigar.
 
I'm lost ...as I read the thread, I agreed with Tom and Brian re: Taboada. But who the hell knows!
 
riverratt said:
One day as I was walking the bank of the river behind my house, I came upon a frog who was smokin' a most interesting cigar. It was in the shape of the old style figs. As he puffed away, the smoke bellowed into clouds of rainbows and stardust and the aroma wofting from that stick was intoxicating.
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I used to smoke stuff like that back in college. Quite good, I might add.
 
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