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Opus X on sale for CigarPass members only!

Flea7 said:
bfreebern said:
Here is my take. There are a lot of respectable vendors that don't have an Opus account. The only way for them to get Opus is to buy retail, then mark them up accordingly. I don't see a problem with this scenario. I think it was a nice offer by Cigarplace to sell his Opus at MSRP, regardless what he paid.

I do however have a problem w/ authorized dealers marking up Opus at ridiculous %s. This is gouging in my opinion. However, they are a business and still need to make a buck to stay open. I just won't buy from them.

MSRP is just that, "suggested". Don't forget that each state has a tobacco tax, as well as their markup. I think we get spoiled by those vendors who do in fact stay pretty close to MSRP and that's the problem. We tend to judge everyone else based on a few vendors who look out for us as well as their books.

JMHO.
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I total agreement with b'freebern.

Cigars are no different from any other goods. It's matter of suppy and demand that sets the price for most goods. Authorized dealers has most of the supplies and they pretty much set the price in how much a certain goods sells for. Cigarplace.biz's prices are reflection of what the market is asking for....a trickle down price. It's good of them (an un-authorized dealer) to even offer or make availalbe the cigars to their customers and nice of them to offer it @ MSRP to us @ CP....probably at a lost.

The variable that most people don't take into effect is what b'freebern has mentioned ....tobacco tax. In Washington state it's 75% of retail cost. A B&M in Bellevue Wa wanted $45 for an opus belicoso..........my tongue almost fell out of my mouth but it sells like hotcakes there. That is why I make most of my purchases on-line.



"We tend to judge everyone else based on a few vendors who look out for us as well as their books."


This is very true. I think sometime we get spoil and expect this out of most vendors. Vendors like Al (thanks Al) are rare where he can offer up generous prices below msrp at special times.

The bottom line for me is ......If the prices are too high I simply just don't buy.....and if enough people don't buy the prices will go down. The demand for opus x's are high and high prices are expected.....at least for me.

IMHO


edited for spelling...i'm sure i didn't catch all of them
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I agree with both. At least Julian is trying to do the right thing. It looks like all of his other prices are in line and he's not out to gouge everyone. There could be more to the story than we all know. I ended up buying a couple from this guy because he went way above and beyond just to sell me a couple of sticks when there are probably way bigger fish in the ocean.
 
bfreebern said:
drew_goring said:
bfreebern said:
Reading comprehension is a lost talent.
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Well, to be fair this is what got me thinking...


Pre-Moki's post
Mrepp said:
I dunno guys, I mean this vendor has treated us well
http://www.cigarpass.com/forums/index.php?...c=25955&hl=

I dont see anyone calling jackschwartz and busting there balls, id say atleast give them credit for trying to do right by the community.
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Post-Moki's post


Mrepp said:
Oh I agree, there prices should be higher but that doesn't necessarily explain why there normal stock is competitively prices and only the hard to find stuff is double. It just seems hard to believe that they need to charge high on only opus and anejo's to pay the rent. Just my 2 cents.


Besides Atlantic cigars is also TNT cigars, oddly enough TNT is cheaper…
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I thought you were calling me out, wasn't for sure who you were talking to. Thanks for the clarification.
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TB I'm calling you out just beacuase :rolleyes:
 
The consumer is the boss. It is our job to find what we want at a price we are willing to pay. That price isn't nor can it be the same for everyone which is why people spend time shopping. If you buy from someone who is offering you a special deal (MSRP) he can't be gouging you but you also don't have to buy from him otherwise.
 
I for one have learned a lot about the cigar business in the last couple of days. I do not support gougers in anyway shape or form. Up until yesterday the term "gouging" for me referred to any vender selling a certain HTF cigar 50%-100% or more over MSRP (not including tobacco tax). I felt that most "good" venders would be close to MSRP and not try to squeeze any extra out of the customer.

After listening to Julian I've changed my thinking a little. I now feel that if a vender pays retail for certain HTF cigars, adds the normal market up onto his price, and offers them to his customers, this is not gouging. I refuse to pay those prices for these cigars, but if others do, and it helps the business, so be it.

That being said I changed my views about Cigar Place and made a purchase from them. I feel that Julian's "Opus X offer" is going the extra mile and trying to give something to this community. I believe that he is aiming to please.

Now, that brings me to Jack Schwartz and their Anejo's. If they purchased these at retail and are marking them up accordingly, because of supply and demand, then I can live with it. If they purchased these at wholesale and marked them up, then they are gouging, and I won't patronize.

Disclaimer: These are just my opinions, thoughts, and views. I am no expert and do not claim to be. :)
 
In regards to Jack Schwartz and the Anejos, I don't know if they are gouging or whatever it is they are doing. But, I can't even come close to getting Anejo's. I have so many customers ask me about them, but I just can't get them. I am assuming that Jack Schwartz has a very good contact, but may be paying more than MSRP himself.

Pigs will fly before I get any Anejos(for the time being), that's my two cents on the subject.

Julian
 
After talking to Billy at Jack Schwartz, i have a different opinion of them, they are 1st rate. If you want Anejos, call him up, he's a very reasonable guy. I'm impressed w/ those guys after having a conversation with Billy.
 
My opinion is no better or worse than anyone else's, it's just an opinion. Plenty of people here disagree with me I'm sure, it's all good.

I stand by what I said, though. This secondary grey market would not exist if people would just stop paying stupid "re-raised" prices for cigars. I won't do it... if you want to, go for it.

I do sympathize with vendors somewhat, in that they are demand-driven. If they don't have an Opus account, and everyone wants Opus, they feel they have to obtain them somehow (by buying them retail and doubling the price).

Still, I feel that many vendors are preying on a combination of their customer's lack of knowledge of what MSRP pricing on these cigars should be, as well as their customer's desire for said products. This is one of the reasons for the various MSRP threads here on CP, and on vitolas.net... so that customers can make informed choices.

My suggestion would be that if you see retailers selling cigars for well over MSRP (after tobacco and sales taxes are figured into the mix), then simply don't buy the cigars. If the secondary market dries up, then we all win.
 
moki said:
My opinion is no better or worse than anyone else's, it's just an opinion. Plenty of people here disagree with me I'm sure, it's all good.

I stand by what I said, though. This secondary grey market would not exist if people would just stop paying stupid "re-raised" prices for cigars. I won't do it... if you want to, go for it.

I do sympathize with vendors somewhat, in that they are demand-driven. If they don't have an Opus account, and everyone wants Opus, they feel they have to obtain them somehow (by buying them retail and doubling the price).
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I agree mostly with what you're saying, and I sympathize with vendors too. The grey market is something that we as consumers and the cigar companies as producers both end up being hurt by.

One of the reasons there are Opus accounts, etc is to prevent crappy B&Ms from shilling them out like expensive Phillies.

If CigarPlace did get a Fuente account, chances are he'd mark Opus down - sounds great, right? But think about it, for every cigar we buy from him, that's a potential cigar taken away from a local B&M somewhere, and that ultimately, with tobacco tax and all, drives them out of business. The same people I hear complaining about their local B&M shutting up shop are the same people who buy cigars from these grey market type retailers. Moreover, B&M owners are by and large not only selling product but providing valuable advice to both us as a consumers and to the cigar companies, ultimately leading to a better product for all. If we shut them out with online retailers charging bottom neck prices, we're going to lose that. I'd rather buy from someone like Al, then pay half his price online and that's because I value what he contributes to the cigar community as a whole. I know not all of us are fortunate enough to have BOTLs like Al owning shops in our backyards, but chances are, the cigar store owner in your backyard is contributing to your enjoyment of product in ways most of us don't even know.

Even further - do the math. Someone who buys Opus for $10 instead of $5 and sells them for $20 instead of $10 is still doubling their profit. So even without a Fuente account, they are making more money than someone charging MSRP with one. If they really wanted to be fair, instead of trying to hide behind deceptive percentages they'd charge a markup like they would have made if they had a Fuente account.
 
Gator said:
After talking to Billy at Jack Schwartz, i have a different opinion of them, they are 1st rate. If you want Anejos, call him up, he's a very reasonable guy. I'm impressed w/ those guys after having a conversation with Billy.
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I am glad to hear that your conversation with Billy went well. He really does run a great shop and he, and his employees, are top-notch. I don't know where he gets Anejos from or what he pays for them. It sounds like you were able to come to agreement perhaps with Billy. Thanks for the update.
 
moki said:
My opinion is no better or worse than anyone else's, it's just an opinion. Plenty of people here disagree with me I'm sure, it's all good.

I stand by what I said, though. This secondary grey market would not exist if people would just stop paying stupid "re-raised" prices for cigars. I won't do it... if you want to, go for it.

I do sympathize with vendors somewhat, in that they are demand-driven. If they don't have an Opus account, and everyone wants Opus, they feel they have to obtain them somehow (by buying them retail and doubling the price).

Still, I feel that many vendors are preying on a combination of their customer's lack of knowledge of what MSRP pricing on these cigars should be, as well as their customer's desire for said products. This is one of the reasons for the various MSRP threads here on CP, and on vitolas.net... so that customers can make informed choices.

My suggestion would be that if you see retailers selling cigars for well over MSRP (after tobacco and sales taxes are figured into the mix), then simply don't buy the cigars. If the secondary market dries up, then we all win.
Click to expand...



So, in your reasoning if you take away what you call the "secondary grey market" ...the prices for Opus X's will be near MSRP? :whistling:

..........Not a chance! The price is set by the demand ....and there is A LOT of it.
 
Flea7 said:
moki said:
My opinion is no better or worse than anyone else's, it's just an opinion. Plenty of people here disagree with me I'm sure, it's all good.

I stand by what I said, though. This secondary grey market would not exist if people would just stop paying stupid "re-raised" prices for cigars. I won't do it... if you want to, go for it.

I do sympathize with vendors somewhat, in that they are demand-driven. If they don't have an Opus account, and everyone wants Opus, they feel they have to obtain them somehow (by buying them retail and doubling the price).

Still, I feel that many vendors are preying on a combination of their customer's lack of knowledge of what MSRP pricing on these cigars should be, as well as their customer's desire for said products. This is one of the reasons for the various MSRP threads here on CP, and on vitolas.net... so that customers can make informed choices.

My suggestion would be that if you see retailers selling cigars for well over MSRP (after tobacco and sales taxes are figured into the mix), then simply don't buy the cigars. If the secondary market dries up, then we all win.
Click to expand...



So, in your reasoning if you take away what you call the "secondary grey market" ...the prices for Opus X's will be near MSRP? :whistling:

..........Not a chance! The price is set by the demand ....and there is A LOT of it.
Click to expand...

I think Moki is correct. There are plenty of places that sell Opus at msrp and even with this "secondary market," they aren't raising prices. Not everything is set by demand, even for luxury goods like premium cigars. If Opus prices were set by demand, every shop in the country would be selling them for 2x and 3x msrp.
 
A lot of times, doing the right thing means not doing it at all.

Julian, honestly, just stop buying and selling Opus. I know it's hard, I know its a great cigar, I know its a really hard to find cigar, but buying it at retail from a store that sells them to you as a second hand dealer is just not doing right by the customers. I'd rather deal with a vendor who values a customer more than moving hard to find products for the customer.

edit - forgot a word :sign:
 
Flea7 said:
moki said:
My opinion is no better or worse than anyone else's, it's just an opinion. Plenty of people here disagree with me I'm sure, it's all good.

I stand by what I said, though. This secondary grey market would not exist if people would just stop paying stupid "re-raised" prices for cigars. I won't do it... if you want to, go for it.

I do sympathize with vendors somewhat, in that they are demand-driven. If they don't have an Opus account, and everyone wants Opus, they feel they have to obtain them somehow (by buying them retail and doubling the price).

Still, I feel that many vendors are preying on a combination of their customer's lack of knowledge of what MSRP pricing on these cigars should be, as well as their customer's desire for said products. This is one of the reasons for the various MSRP threads here on CP, and on vitolas.net... so that customers can make informed choices.

My suggestion would be that if you see retailers selling cigars for well over MSRP (after tobacco and sales taxes are figured into the mix), then simply don't buy the cigars. If the secondary market dries up, then we all win.
Click to expand...


So, in your reasoning if you take away what you call the "secondary grey market" ...the prices for Opus X's will be near MSRP? :whistling:

..........Not a chance! The price is set by the demand ....and there is A LOT of it.
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He never said that at any point in his post. The grey market is people buying Opus from retailers or unauthorized distributors and then marking up the price again. Obviously, if you don't buy Opus from people who are not buying them directly from Fuente, the grey market will go away, because that's exactly what it is. And of course, we'll still see marked up Opus, but probably not nearly as high.
 
There are plenty of places that sell Opus at msrp and even with this "secondary market," they aren't raising prices. Not everything is set by demand, even for luxury goods like premium cigars. [/quote]







Oh really! I'm going to need you to PM me of those sources to confirm that! :whistling:
 
Flea7 said:
There are plenty of places that sell Opus at msrp and even with this "secondary market," they aren't raising prices. Not everything is set by demand, even for luxury goods like premium cigars.







Oh really! I'm going to need you to PM me of those sources to confirm that! :whistling:
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Are you even being serious? I found them through Google and so can you.
 
ThankYouForNotSmoking said:
Flea7 said:
There are plenty of places that sell Opus at msrp and even with this "secondary market," they aren't raising prices. Not everything is set by demand, even for luxury goods like premium cigars.







Oh really! I'm going to need you to PM me of those sources to confirm that! :whistling:
Click to expand...


Are you even being serious? I found them through Google and so can you.
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What he said.
 
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