Wrapper discussion

[CigarStone]

I have read a lot here from guys who have obviously smoked enough cigars that they can tell what type of wrapper they are smoking and what they prefer. I would like to obtain a basic understanding of the basic taste differences between wrappers.

Maybe some discussion about "why" certain wrappers taste the way they do?

You FOG's must be old to have smoked that much :whistling:

Edited for content..............................

 

[mrjinglesusa]

All I know is that Opus Rosado wrappers are yummy. Oh, and maduros taste better than naturals.

 

[cigarsmkr]

I have read a lot here from guys who have obviously smoked enough cigars that they can tell what type of wrapper they are smoking and what they prefer. I would like to obtain a basic understanding of the basic taste differences between wrappers.

Maybe some discussion about "why" certain wrappers taste the way they do?

You FOG's must be old to have smoked that much :whistling:

Edited for content..............................

im not experienced enough to even tell you if a cigar is made in america or the d.r. i would imagine the people who can do this must be consiures of the most extent relm! what would be even more fascinating are the people who can do this blind w/o a band or any previous info on the cigar.
I take my hat off to those who are worthy of these skills.

 

[tc7man]

I am suprised at the lack of response to this question. It is probably subjective to say the least but there sure are differences. It would be nice to hear a summary of the traits from more experienced people.

Sumatra--I sometimes get a metallic taste from these that I do not really like.
Corojo--seem to be a pure, medium tobacco taste, a cuban taste. Medium.
Maduro--sweet, sometimes with citrus or almond. Medium.
CT shade. woody, cedary, mild. Usually tastes similiar between different brands.

The others I have not had enough to give an opinion on.

Just my .02.

 

[Marcos]

This was the first question I asked when I came to the board. The responses were that I should search more and try em all. I know what I like but I can't tell if what I like is from the wrapper or from that particular wrapper/filler/binder combo. Wish I could be of more help but I still scratch my head over this one.

 

[Dan66]

Probably the single most distinctive wrapper (to me, anyway) would have to be the Cameroon. It's difficult to describe it, though. It has as much to do with it's smell as its taste. Some call it a citrus taste; some say it's leathery. As for a brand - many of us favor the Toranos 1916. A wonderful Cameroon stick and usually less than $5.

Learn to distinguish between a Cameroon and a natural wrapper, then move on from there. Anyone concur?

 

[marcsheldon]

i concur dan. the cameroon is also my personal favorite. (do yourself a favor and find a cameroon shark ) anyway, the best way i became somewhat knowledgable about the different wrappers is trying the same exact cigar but with different wrappers. thats hard to find, but when i opened my cigar shop i decided to carry a line of "house cigars". they are rolled by oliva for me and they sell for about 3 bucks. anyway, i smoked all five wrappers; cameroon, natural, maduro, corojo and sumatra. since the binder and fillers are the exact same, i knew the difference in the taste had to be the wrapper so i went from there decifering the differences. i would suggest hitting a b&m that has the same set up i have. youll spend about 20 bucks on 5 inexpensive cigars and go from there.

also, this topics been discussed before a few time,s so do a search for it if you have time.

 

[Ginseng]

i concur dan. the cameroon is also my personal favorite. (do yourself a favor and find a cameroon shark ) anyway, the best way i became somewhat knowledgable about the different wrappers is trying the same exact cigar but with different wrappers. thats hard to find, but when i opened my cigar shop i decided to carry a line of "house cigars". they are rolled by oliva for me and they sell for about 3 bucks. anyway, i smoked all five wrappers; cameroon, natural, maduro, corojo and sumatra. since the binder and fillers are the exact same, i knew the difference in the taste had to be the wrapper so i went from there decifering the differences. i would suggest hitting a b&m that has the same set up i have. youll spend about 20 bucks on 5 inexpensive cigars and go from there.

also, this topics been discussed before a few time,s so do a search for it if you have time.

Marc,
PM coming your way.
Wilkey

 

[CigarStone]

This was the first question I asked when I came to the board. The responses were that I should search more and try em all.

also, this topics been discussed before a few time,s so do a search for it if you have time.

In searching prior to posting this thread I read a lot of responses to this issue; they consisted of "read more you'll find it" "use the search feature" "it's been asked before" but I have yet to find any discussion about the different flavors/characteristics of the various wrappers.

There has been a bit of discussion in this thread, I'm sure somebody will be gracious enough to give us some detailed discussion.

 

[Ginseng]

This was the first question I asked when I came to the board. The responses were that I should search more and try em all.

also, this topics been discussed before a few time,s so do a search for it if you have time.

In searching prior to posting this thread I read a lot of responses to this issue; they consisted of "read more you'll find it" "use the search feature" "it's been asked before" but I have yet to find any discussion about the different flavors/characteristics of the various wrappers.

There has been a bit of discussion in this thread, I'm sure somebody will be gracious enough to give us some detailed discussion.

It is there if you dig for it but IMO that's not the key issue. The reason so many of us are equivocal and/or vague about the contribution and characteristics of wrapper leaf is that the smoking of cigars (in this case, what counts as empirical research) is hideously uncontrolled and notoriously unreliable in quantifying the effect of interest. Perhaps this is as it should be for something that for most of us is a leisure hobby.

So, if we accept that quantification is difficult if not impossible in any meaningful sense, that leaves the question of whether we can draw qualitative conclusions that make sense to any other given cigar smoker. I'm not entirely convinced that we can with respect to wrapper.

There is one viewpoint that suggests it's nonsensical to try and tease out the effect of wrapper from the holistic cigar as a singular entity. Let me ask this question: If you make two plain quiches. One with allspice and one with cinnamon, would they taste like two different quiches? Or would they taste like the same quiche except that one is sweeter and one is warmer*?

Wilkey

*In terms of the aromatic spice profile.

 

[Devil Doc]

Real men don't eat quiche.

Doc.

 

[Ginseng]

Real men don't eat quiche.

Doc.

Fine. An eggwhite frittata then.

BTW, I don't believe you've answered my question on the assless chaps.

Wilkey

 

[Devil Doc]

Real men don't eat quiche.

Doc.

Fine. An eggwhite frittata then.

BTW, I don't believe you've answered my question on the assless chaps.

Wilkey

It's a gray area, but I'll tell ya this, you go orderin' eggwhite frittatas around here and you'll be treated as if you were wearing assless chaps.

Doc.

 

[Ginseng]

Real men don't eat quiche.

Doc.

Fine. An eggwhite frittata then.

BTW, I don't believe you've answered my question on the assless chaps.

Wilkey

It's a gray area, but I'll tell ya this, you go orderin' eggwhite frittatas around here and you'll be treated as if you were wearing assless chaps.

Doc.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Touché

Wilkey

 

[CigarStone]

Let me ask this question: If you make two plain quiches. One with allspice and one with cinnamon, would they taste like two different quiches? Or would they taste like the same quiche except that one is sweeter and one is warmer*?

Wilkey

*In terms of the aromatic spice profile.

Two plain quiches, one with allspice and one with cinnamon, would no longer be plain would they?

But in keeping with the concept......If you brew two different "roasts" of coffee and drink them both black, one with cream and one with sugar, would one taste creamier while the other tasted sweeter? Or, if you drank them while wearing assless chaps, would they both simply taste like coffee out on the open range?

 

[Jonesy]

if you drank them while wearing assless chaps, would they both simply taste like coffee out on the open range?

How'd this thread turn from wrapper flavor to drinking coffee in assless chaps......nevermind, I don't think I want to know. :laugh:

 

[Ginseng]

But in keeping with the concept......If you brew two different "roasts" of coffee and drink them both black, one with cream and one with sugar, would one taste creamier while the other tasted sweeter? Or, if you drank them while wearing assless chaps, would they both simply taste like coffee out on the open range?

If you drank them both black, then they wouldn't have sugar or cream in them would they? :sign:

Same question applies. Is coffee with sugar "the same" as coffee with cream except that it's a lot less creamy and a whole bunch sweeter? Or are they two different things: coffee with cream and coffee with sugar?

Ride 'em cowboy! Yee haa!

Wilkey

 

[emodx]

Real men don't eat quiche.

Doc.

Fine. An eggwhite frittata then.

BTW, I don't believe you've answered my question on the assless chaps.

Wilkey

It's a gray area, but I'll tell ya this, you go orderin' eggwhite frittatas around here and you'll be treated as if you were wearing assless chaps.

Doc.

mmmmm... assless chaps make me randy!

Cameroon tend to be slightly spicey. If I remeber right, aren't Hemis Cameroon?

Sun Grown tend to be spicey to the tongue and pallet. Think black pepper.

Corojo tend be be very pungent in pure tobacco flavor. Some relate it to Cubans, but I am not sure.

Maduro tend to sweet and rich in flavors.

Natural and shade grown tend to be sweet and very mild.

Sumatra suck.

Rosado aren't very common.

Candela are slightly tannic and very bland.

Each wrapper grower uses different strains for different wrappers. IMO, you cant really for sure say a type wrapper tastes a certain way. This can really only be done within one line. In the above list, you have tobacco type and also special handling.

Rosado, Sumatra, Cameroon, and Corojo are types. Candela, natural, shade grown, sun grown, and maduro are the way wrappers are grown or processed. For example, Corojo and be natural or Maduro. Connecticut can be maduro, shade grown, or natural. Are you confoozerazled yet?

-E

 

[CigarStone]

Real men don't eat quiche.

Doc.

Fine. An eggwhite frittata then.

BTW, I don't believe you've answered my question on the assless chaps.

Wilkey

It's a gray area, but I'll tell ya this, you go orderin' eggwhite frittatas around here and you'll be treated as if you were wearing assless chaps.

Doc.

mmmmm... assless chaps make me randy!

Cameroon tend to be slightly spicey. If I remeber right, aren't Hemis Cameroon?

Sun Grown tend to be spicey to the tongue and pallet. Think black pepper.

Corojo tend be be very pungent in pure tobacco flavor. Some relate it to Cubans, but I am not sure.

Maduro tend to sweet and rich in flavors.

Natural and shade grown tend to be sweet and very mild.

Sumatra suck.

Rosado aren't very common.

Candela are slightly tannic and very bland.

Each wrapper grower uses different strains for different wrappers. IMO, you cant really for sure say a type wrapper tastes a certain way. This can really only be done within one line. In the above list, you have tobacco type and also special handling.

Rosado, Sumatra, Cameroon, and Corojo are types. Candela, natural, shade grown, sun grown, and maduro are the way wrappers are grown or processed. For example, Corojo and be natural or Maduro. Connecticut can be maduro, shade grown, or natural. Are you confoozerazled yet?

-E

Yes I am confused, I thought your name was Emiliano, now you say you're Randy!

But thanks for the wrapper input!

 

[mdutch]

Cameroon tend to be slightly spicey. If I remeber right, aren't Hemis Cameroon?
Sun Grown tend to be spicey to the tongue and pallet. Think black pepper.
Corojo tend be be very pungent in pure tobacco flavor. Some relate it to Cubans, but I am not sure.
Maduro tend to sweet and rich in flavors.
Natural and shade grown tend to be sweet and very mild.
Sumatra suck.
Rosado aren't very common.
Candela are slightly tannic and very bland.
Each wrapper grower uses different strains for different wrappers. IMO, you cant really for sure say a type wrapper tastes a certain way. This can really only be done within one line. In the above list, you have tobacco type and also special handling.
Rosado, Sumatra, Cameroon, and Corojo are types. Candela, natural, shade grown, sun grown, and maduro are the way wrappers are grown or processed. For example, Corojo and be natural or Maduro. Connecticut can be maduro, shade grown, or natural. Are you confoozerazled yet?
-E

Well, though I disagree with "Sumatra suck" (try a Hoyo de Monterrey Dark Sumatra) I would suggest that you go to your local tobacco shop, and try some of the same sticks with different wrappers. There are quite a few out there (HdM Excalibur, Maria Mancini are two I use to "train" college boys with) that have basically the same stick in both a Natural (Connecticut Shade) and Maduro wrapper. Once you've got the basic concepts down, then look at some of the more subtle differences between the darker wrappers.

Have all of you been to JR Cigar's "Cigar University" section and read the wealth of info there? That's where I began getting serious about learning a little beyond "I know what I like." Here's a link.

And FYI, if you're looking to get started on your "wrapper degree", they've frequently got inexpensive five-packs or gift sets that combine several variants of the same mfg's stick, so you can become more discerning about the finish.

One last point that not a lot of smokers get, as we Americans seem obsessed with big fat cigars. If you'll notice, Cuban cigars tend to be smaller in diameter, with the corona size being consistently popular. Why? Because the BALANCE or ration between the amount of wrapper used and the amount of filler absolutely defines the taste. I'm going to do some math here, but I'll use average and super-size turkey wraps to keep your interest. Remember pi? It's the ratio of the diameter to the circumference in a circle.

Let's say you buy a 2" diameter turkey wrap. Its cross section is (pi * radius^2) equals 3.14 square inches of filler (turkey) How much wrapper? The circumference (pi * diameter) is 6.28. Mmmm.... that's a 1:2 ratio of turkey to tortilla. You can taste both.

Now a big fat 4" turkey wrap. Radius is 2", squared is 4", times pi is 12.56 square inches of filler. Diameter is 4" x pi = 12.56 linear inches. Ratio of square inches of filler to linear inches of wrapper is 1:1. So a lot less wrapper flavor vs the filler. You'd better be a turkey lover, because you're not going to be tasting the wrapper.

See how ring gauge changes the product's taste using the same blend? It's the same with cigars. So in addition to checking wrappers, consider and match the ring gauge of what you're smoking/comparing.