Three Philosophers Question (now with more questions!)

[tomthirtysix]

Was at my distributor today, and slowly they are increasing their "good beer" selection. It's gone from one rack in the back with bottles all over the place to a couple aisles, everything in order, and new stuff coming in all the time.

I'm guessing with this organization, they're finding some older stock. I noticed a single bottle of the Three Philosophers with 2005 sticker on it, while all the rest said 2008. I know nothing about aging beer. I see a bunch of you collectors talking about it. I'm assuming it's been on the shelf its whole life, standing upright. The store is cool all year long; heat really shouldn't be a factor.

I guess my question is - is this something I should grab? Is beer like wine, and should be laid down for optimum storage, so I should stay away? I'm thinking maybe next time I go back, if it's still there, grab the '05 and '08 and check them out head to head (for research purposes only :laugh.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.


Edit: to change title

 

[Carps]

Was at my distributor today, and slowly they are increasing their "good beer" selection. It's gone from one rack in the back with bottles all over the place to a couple aisles, everything in order, and new stuff coming in all the time.

I'm guessing with this organization, they're finding some older stock. I noticed a single bottle of the Three Philosophers with 2005 sticker on it, while all the rest said 2008. I know nothing about aging beer. I see a bunch of you collectors talking about it. I'm assuming it's been on the shelf its whole life, standing upright. The store is cool all year long; heat really shouldn't be a factor.

I guess my question is - is this something I should grab? Is beer like wine, and should be laid down for optimum storage, so I should stay away? I'm thinking maybe next time I go back, if it's still there, grab the '05 and '08 and check them out head to head (for research purposes only :laugh.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

The yeast will lie dormant with cool temperatures, which will prevent the beer from developing in a good way, but that depends on whether or not it is bottle conditioned. However, you can still age beer that sat in a cold warehouse as long as you don't shock the yeast with the opposite temperature extreme, which will prevent the skunk. Sometimes beer labels will tell you whether or not the beer can be aged or should be consumed by a certain date. As far as this specific beer goes I'm not sure, but I know a more seasoned vet will add something. See you at QSH IV Tom :thumbs: .

 

[MAS_Puros]

Does sun light cause the skunk.

 

[denverdog]

Tom, Three Philosophers is a Belgian Quadrupel with almost 10% ABV so as long as it wasn't stored in a harsh environment (very hot or in direct sunlight) it will be very good and in fact this style will many times improve with age. I recently drank a 2003 and it was much better than the 2008. Mike is right in mentioning that sunlight can in fact cause beer to skunk but these bottles are typically dark and the huge amount of candy sugar they use to brew it will preserve it as it ages. As long as the price isn't outrageous I would go for it. Let us know how it is!

 

[smellysell]

You can send it to me if you don't want it Tom.


Actually I have a bottle of '05 in the cellar is should drink...

 

[Phlicker]

Does sun light cause the skunk.

Sunlight causes the "skunk"...not swings in temperature. The UV rays from sunlight create a chemical reaction in the hop resins causing the stinky odor you find in beers that have gone bad. Brown glass is the least susceptible to this, followed by green and then clear. A good deal of bottled Heineken has skunked from sun exposure by the time it reaches U.S. shelves, though through genius marketing we've been conditioned to think that's the "imported" taste. And Corona? Well, let's just say there's a reason that we've been taught to drink it from the bottle (keeping the beer from our noses) and to shove a lime wedge down the neck.

The idea that you can't bring a refrigerated beer down to cellar temp and back again without it getting "skunked" is probably one of the most prevalent beer myths among those who think they know better. MASSIVE swings in temperature (100 degrees to freezing, etc.) aren't good for any non-pasteurized brew, but there's no harm in taking something out of the fridge to make room for something else. Carps is right, though. If you want to cellar a beer or store it for long periods of time to see how it develops, a cooler environment will slow this process down. Most bottle-conditioned beers are in their sweet spot at about 45-55 degrees, give or take. Since most fridge temps are in the high 30's or low 40's, this will keep the beer in it's "fresh" state for longer and retard the yeast from taking further action. Most hoppy beers (IPAs, APAs, etc.) will lose their "bite" when cellared (hops and spices fade over time), so unless you want to see how the malt develops in one, I'd leave those in the fridge until you're going to drink them. The maltier, higher-gravity beers tend to perform better in the cellar over time (as a general rule...YMMV, though).

 

[tomthirtysix]

Thanks for the help, guys. As far as I can tell, it's never been anywhere near sunlight. The distributor, like most I have seen, is a dark, windowless building. The only source of light is through the front door, and the only stuff stored anywhere near there is the soda.

No idea what the price is, but most of his other beers are reasonably priced compared to other stores nearby. Ballpark, what does this usually go for?

 

[MAS_Puros]

Thanks for the help, guys. As far as I can tell, it's never been anywhere near sunlight. The distributor, like most I have seen, is a dark, windowless building. The only source of light is through the front door, and the only stuff stored anywhere near there is the soda.

No idea what the price is, but most of his other beers are reasonably priced compared to other stores nearby. Ballpark, what does this usually go for?

I've seen them between $9-$10

 

[Carps]

thanks for the info guys and thanks for teaching me some new things.

 

[tomthirtysix]

So, Saturday night, we shipped my son off to my mom's for the night. Perfect time to watch our latest arrival from Netflix and sit down to do a comparison. I found a second bottle of the 2005 at same distributor, so I picked them both up. Like I wrote about here, my brother came through with a bottle of the 2008. I drank these two bottles, with a little help from the wife, strictly for scientific comparison to help you guys out. :laugh:

First, a little background for those who do not know:

From the Ommegang website:
The essence of wonder is a unique and masterful blend of strong malty ale and authentic Belgian Kriek. Our philosophers deduce that this powerful marriage of cherries, roasted malts, and dark chocolate will only achieve more wisdom and coherence as it broods in the dark recesses of your cellar.

It weighs in at 9.8% abv, and the 750mL corked bottles are a perfect serving size.

Going on Justin's recommendation from my birthday gift thread, we started off with the 2005. After waiting a short while for the head to clear, I notice a slight hint of cherry smell, but a pretty heavy alcohol smell. As the beer warmed to a more appropriate temp (I had it sitting in the fridge, but the bottle recommends serving at 50*), the alcohol smell basically disappears, and is replaced by the cherries. Not the ice-cream store maraschino type, but the dark, mildly sweet kind.

I tasted only the slightest hint of the dark chocolate that the website talks about, but the cherry was definitely found. There was also a strong caramel taste. These two taste were a great pairing, and I loved this beer down to the last drop. My wife liked it a lot too, finishing hers, which was just a little less than half the bottle.

We then moved on to the 2008. The carbonation was a lot stronger, a lot more 'in your face'. The cherry taste was a lot more bitter than the 2005, and the caramel I enjoyed in the first one could hardly be found. I really think if I had opened the 2008 first, and didn't have the '05 as a reference point, I may have missed the caramel all together in this one. The wife took a few sips of this one, and gave up on it. Yes, the fact that she was already half a bottle in (and not much of a drinker, to boot) probably had something to do with it, but she agreed that the 2005 was better.

The 2008 was not bad, but not on the same level as the 2005. So, this leads me to another question - is the difference in taste because it was a different batch, or because of the age? If I was to buy some more 2008 and let it sit for ~3 years, would I get the same caramel that was missing from it being fresh? Or, is it a mix of both reasons?

Again, thanks for the insight, beer guys. I look forward to hearing the responses.

 

[smellysell]

I've had several vintage versions of this Tom and have enjoyed them all much more than any of the fresh versions I've had, so I'd lean towards it having to do with the aging personally. I've had different years of it fresh too, and it's always a little harsh. My wife had almost an identical experience to yours too btw!

 

[suprchunk]

The 2008 was not bad, but not on the same level as the 2005. So, this leads me to another question - is the difference in taste because it was a different batch, or because of the age? If I was to buy some more 2008 and let it sit for ~3 years, would I get the same caramel that was missing from it being fresh? Or, is it a mix of both reasons?

Again, thanks for the insight, beer guys. I look forward to hearing the responses.

That is strange, because I thought the 08 was far superior to the 05. In fact, I did not like the 05 enough to actually consider not purchasing any again. But when the 08 came on the shelves, I said I would get it for the wife and try a sip to see if was as bad as I remembered. Well the wife got to take a sip while I enjoyed the whole bottle.

And the age will cause the different tastes. Different flavors will appear, dormant flavors will suddenly pop out at you, and the alcohol taste usually mellows out some. I have had a RIS that I brewed some six years ago that I sampled about 2-3 times a year. The last bottle that I just drank a couple weeks ago was some of the best beer I have ever drank in my life. I wish I would have made 100 gallons of that to age. Next time I will. I say buy as much of that 08 as you can and let it sit. And over the years take a bottle out and enjoy it and compare its taste to the notes from this tasting. My guess is it will change more than you think it could.