Senators reply to my email

[Rob_k]

Just received this:

"On 7/26/07, Sheldon Whitehouse <sheldon_whitehouse@whitehouse.senate.gov> wrote:


Dear Mr. Kerfoot:

Thank you for contacting me with your concerns about the federal excise tax on tobacco, and particularly the tax on cigars. I appreciate hearing from you.

There has been much misinformation circulating about the magnitude of the proposed excise tax increase on cigars. Currently, large cigars are taxed at a maximum rate of 5 cents per cigar, while small cigars are taxed at a maximum of 4 cents per pack of 20. The proposed increase, which would be used to finance healthcare coverage for uninsured children, would increase the tax on large cigars to about half of the manufacturer’s price, up to a maximum of $10, and set the tax on small cigars to $1 per pack, identical to the proposed tax for cigarettes. The Cigar Association of America estimates that the average tax on large premium cigars would rise to about $1.

There is a large body of scientific literature that suggests that increasing the cost of tobacco products discourages smoking to a powerful degree. I believe that we must take measures to discourage young people from beginning the dangerous habit of smoking and to encourage adult smokers to quit. To the extent such taxes help do that, it is reasonable to consider them. That being said, I will examine any proposed increases carefully, keeping your comments in mind.

Thanks again for contacting me about this important issue. If you have any other questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to let me know.


Sincerely,

Sheldon"


My reply, I borrowed some from Angryfish (thanks for your words bro):


Senator,
Thank you for your response, it is nice to see you are involved with the general voting public.
I am appalled and outraged at your blatant ignorance and lack of concern for the cigar smokers in our state. As a community we will not stand to be lumped into a flawed cigarette tax bill for healthcare. I personally feel you are discriminating against me, the casual cigar smoker. This proposed bill is a very noble and worthy cause, but the way the Senate and House are proposing to fund said bill is wrong and an outrage to the cigar smoking community. Why not add a few cents to the gasoline tax, a product that virtually all of us use, and not single out the casual cigar smoker? The bill would surely benefit from the broader tax base of gasoline users, rather than single out the cigar smoker.
In closing, I, and all of my fellow cigar smokers ask that you and your fellow Senators strongly reconsider how this bill is funded, and stop the discrimination of cigar smokers.
Regards,
Mr. Robert Kerfoot
Johnston, RI


Needless to say, I will be calling and emailing (again) my reps and senators this afternoon.
Fight the good fight BOTL's, this is worth fighting.
Rob
Johnston, RI

 

[badhangover]

He's giving you the finger, but in a more polite and articulate manner than some of the other responses I've seen people receive in their correspondence with their respective senators regarding this legislation.

 

[Mrepp]

Didn’t there used to be a time when these senators and representatives were elected to represent our opinions and choices. Not exercise there’s for what they consider our own good?

 

[smokelaw1]

The Cigar Association of America estimates that the average tax on large premium cigars would rise to about $1.

Uh, so, if the tax is half og the MSRP, does the cigar association of america's "Average...large premium cigar" cost $2?
Who's up for a "premium" blind fiver?

 

[mmburtch]

The Cigar Association of America estimates that the average tax on large premium cigars would rise to about $1.

Uh, so, if the tax is half og the MSRP, does the cigar association of america's "Average...large premium cigar" cost $2?
Who's up for a "premium" blind fiver?

I believe it is half of the wholesale price, which would put the average at closer to $4. A number not so much represented in my himi, but probably pretty close on average.

 

[badhangover]

Uh, so, if the tax is half og the MSRP, does the cigar association of america's "Average...large premium cigar" cost $2?

I believe it does. In much the same way that Busch and Miller beer products (and even "lesser" quality brewer offerings) are considered "premium". The majority of cigars are sold in convenience store settings (I think). Those eventual hollowed out weed wrappers are dragging down our hobby. Non cigar smokers just don't seem able to comprehend the difference in product.

 

[mmburtch]

Reality is, that this thing is going to pass. The House will then take it and attach a couple of highway funding measures and a retirement bonus for former congressmen. The president will Veto it. So, what we really need to know, is are there 35 senators who will vote against this if they try to over-ride the veto.

 

[tigger]

Uh, so, if the tax is half og the MSRP, does the cigar association of america's "Average...large premium cigar" cost $2?

Same thing crossed my mind, so I've faxed the Cigar Ass'n to try to get more info.

 

[PuroEsq]

Reality is, that this thing is going to pass. The House will then take it and attach a couple of highway funding measures and a retirement bonus for former congressmen. The president will Veto it. So, what we really need to know, is are there 35 senators who will vote against this if they try to over-ride the veto.

Of course there will be a bunch of unrelated crap added in. And because of this and the fact that the main tax proposal is flawed and bad government the President will Veto it. :thumbs:

Then the press will come out and accuse the President (and all those who voted against the bill) of neglecting the poor children in our country and supporting the rich evil cigar cmokers. :angry:

 

[tsmckenney]

Reality is, that this thing is going to pass. The House will then take it and attach a couple of highway funding measures and a retirement bonus for former congressmen. The president will Veto it. So, what we really need to know, is are there 35 senators who will vote against this if they try to over-ride the veto.

Please see: http://www.cigarpass.com/forums/index.php?...c=35895&hl=

We're trying to figure that out.

 

[vin#]

Just received this:

"On 7/26/07, Sheldon Whitehouse <sheldon_whitehouse@whitehouse.senate.gov> wrote:


Dear Mr. Kerfoot:

Thank you for contacting me with your concerns about the federal excise tax on tobacco, and particularly the tax on cigars. I appreciate hearing from you.

There has been much misinformation circulating about the magnitude of the proposed excise tax increase on cigars. Currently, large cigars are taxed at a maximum rate of 5 cents per cigar, while small cigars are taxed at a maximum of 4 cents per pack of 20. The proposed increase, which would be used to finance healthcare coverage for uninsured children, would increase the tax on large cigars to about half of the manufacturer’s price, up to a maximum of $10, and set the tax on small cigars to $1 per pack, identical to the proposed tax for cigarettes. The Cigar Association of America estimates that the average tax on large premium cigars would rise to about $1.

There is a large body of scientific literature that suggests that increasing the cost of tobacco products discourages smoking to a powerful degree. I believe that we must take measures to discourage young people from beginning the dangerous habit of smoking and to encourage adult smokers to quit. To the extent such taxes help do that, it is reasonable to consider them. That being said, I will examine any proposed increases carefully, keeping your comments in mind.

Thanks again for contacting me about this important issue. If you have any other questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to let me know.


Sincerely,

Sheldon"


My reply, I borrowed some from Angryfish (thanks for your words bro):


Senator,
Thank you for your response, it is nice to see you are involved with the general voting public.
I am appalled and outraged at your blatant ignorance and lack of concern for the cigar smokers in our state. As a community we will not stand to be lumped into a flawed cigarette tax bill for healthcare. I personally feel you are discriminating against me, the casual cigar smoker. This proposed bill is a very noble and worthy cause, but the way the Senate and House are proposing to fund said bill is wrong and an outrage to the cigar smoking community. Why not add a few cents to the gasoline tax, a product that virtually all of us use, and not single out the casual cigar smoker? The bill would surely benefit from the broader tax base of gasoline users, rather than single out the cigar smoker.
In closing, I, and all of my fellow cigar smokers ask that you and your fellow Senators strongly reconsider how this bill is funded, and stop the discrimination of cigar smokers.
Regards,
Mr. Robert Kerfoot
Johnston, RI


Needless to say, I will be calling and emailing (again) my reps and senators this afternoon.
Fight the good fight BOTL's, this is worth fighting.
Rob
Johnston, RI

Driving is dangerous. Should we figure out a tax to encourage adult drivers to quit driving?

Why is tax always the answer?

 

[tigger]

I know ya'll can't fathom that a Senator would spin anything, so I hate to burst your bubbles, but here's the response I got from the Cigar Association:

Tim,

At a tax rate of 53.13% with a $10 per cigar tax cap, we estimate that prices of all cigars at retail would increase 2.5 to more than 3 times the current retail value. Last year the average price of a cigar sold by a manufacturer to the first step of distribution was $1.90, including the excise tax. So, with the current $.05 cap, the average premium cigar was sold by a manufacturer at $1.85 excluding the tax. So, at a new tax rate of 53.13%, the federal tax on that cigar is about $1. However, there are resulting higher state and local taxes as the product goes through the distribution chain.

The new excise tax will cause the manufacturer to raise his base sales price (before the tax) by more than just the $1 tax. Then it goes to distributors and retailers, is subject to state excise taxes averaging 30% of the new price, and then of course each step of the distribution chain is putting on their markups on the increased prices. And then state and local sales taxes are assessed on the higher prices. So you can not just look at the $1 average in isolation.

We define a premium cigar as being made by hand, consisting of all natural long-filler tobacco and retailing for $1 or more.

Norman Sharp
Cigar Assn. of America

 

[grateful1]

I know ya'll can't fathom that a Senator would spin anything, so I hate to burst your bubbles, but here's the response I got from the Cigar Association:

Tim,

At a tax rate of 53.13% with a $10 per cigar tax cap, we estimate that prices of all cigars at retail would increase 2.5 to more than 3 times the current retail value. Last year the average price of a cigar sold by a manufacturer to the first step of distribution was $1.90, including the excise tax. So, with the current $.05 cap, the average premium cigar was sold by a manufacturer at $1.85 excluding the tax. So, at a new tax rate of 53.13%, the federal tax on that cigar is about $1. However, there are resulting higher state and local taxes as the product goes through the distribution chain.

The new excise tax will cause the manufacturer to raise his base sales price (before the tax) by more than just the $1 tax. Then it goes to distributors and retailers, is subject to state excise taxes averaging 30% of the new price, and then of course each step of the distribution chain is putting on their markups on the increased prices. And then state and local sales taxes are assessed on the higher prices. So you can not just look at the $1 average in isolation.

We define a premium cigar as being made by hand, consisting of all natural long-filler tobacco and retailing for $1 or more.

Norman Sharp
Cigar Assn. of America

Ummmmm, what's SUPER premium?

 

[smokelaw1]

$2

 

[enerjay]

As I looked over said bill, I noticed that they would like to tax even the stock found on the shelf at the local B&M, Humm that would be a nice trick. I suppose it would only be fair than, at that point for the GOV. to send me and you a statement declaring we owe back TAX on the stock in our humidors. Or Cooladors.

My suggestion is to take it one more step. Each bar owner should be required to keep a breathalyser on hand at the bar. After every round of drink patrons should be required to blow in order to insure they are below the sates legal limit. This will insure the safety of all persons. After all impaired drivers cost American taxpayers about 21 to 24 billion dollars a year.

 

[Wurm]

You need to write him back and ask how the kids are going to be taken care of if he gets his wish and everyone stops smoking. Hes full of shit and he knew it as he was writing you.

 

[ggiese]

Crap... This is some of the logic my Senator (Dick Durbin) is using to consider the tobacco tax...

...We need to remind ourselves from time to time about tobacco and cancer and heart disease. We have been lulled into the feeling that this problem is under control. Tobacco-related disease is the No. 1 preventable cause of death in America today. It still is an issue. There are still too many children who take up smoking, I mean literally children. Tobacco companies know that the way to ensnare someone into tobacco addiction is to get them started as kids. Kids, rebellious and curious, turn to tobacco, developing an addiction they don't even understand, finding it hard to quit. They become early, lifelong smokers, and chances are one in three will die because of that habit.

This is still an issue. It is an issue we are going to face soon here in the Senate, because the Finance Committee is considering increasing the tobacco tax on America. I am sure there will be screams that that is unfair to smokers. But I have reached the point now where I have to tell them that there is a great expense associated with their addiction. We also know that increased cost of product reduces the likelihood that kids will use tobacco products. So there is a positive that will come out of it.

We know when it comes to cancer, heart disease, diseases that affect virtually every organ in the human body and, most importantly, impact the life of virtually every family, tobacco is a negative factor...

(http://durbin.senate.gov/record.cfm?id=279226)

Clearly he makes no distinction between cigarette smoking and cigar smoking (as a matter of fact - he calls it all "tobacco products") - and is lumping both into the same "dangerous" category. His anger and frustration with cigarette tobacco companies (his grandfather died of lung cancer) is definitely clouding his judgment...

Unfortunately, I don't think sending him any kind of note requesting he vote against the bill is going to placate him...

 

[hudsonvalley]

If they really wanted children not to smoke they should make it mandatory that every ten year old have a cigar. That'll fix em.

 

[Smokyballs]

If they really gave a shit about the "Addiction"they would make it illegal! Why aren't you taxing the shit out of Alcohol? That kills more people a year than smoking and a lot more money is spent on liquor than tobacco. They don't give a shit about children, the average alcoholic has there first drink at the age of 7!

 

[jester922]

If they really gave a shit about the "Addiction"they would make it illegal! Why aren't you taxing the shit out of Alcohol? That kills more people a year than smoking and a lot more money is spent on liquor than tobacco. They don't give a shit about children, the average alcoholic has there first drink at the age of 7!

Or tax McDonald's, Carl's Jr, etc. I'm no expert but I would assume that obesity in the United States is just as big a problem.