Parrot Pass 2010 AKA One Particular Beedog Pass

[beaucredo]

Thanks for letting me in, phil!

 

[insight]

Hey don't I know you?

 

[modo22]

I Am stuck at work until 10ish…but DC says delivered and my girl has it waiting for me (the package that is). I am pretty sure of my puts and takes. Let me know what you think and I will confirm when I get home.

Take: Boli GM / Put: Monte Petite Edmundo (09) or Monte #1 (09)
Take: Tat Frank / Put: Tat Drac
Take: ?? / Put: Anejo 55

Thanks again for letting me play!

 

[NASTY]

Take: Boli GM / Put: Monte Petite Edmundo (09) or Monte #1 (09)
I believe the Petite Edmundo wouldn't work being that it's around a $5 smoke as opposed to a BGM, which for the most part a $9 stick.

Take: Tat Frank / Put: Tat Drac
I for one would say no to this P/T solely because I wouldn't want the box smelling like paint
Take: ?? / Put: Anejo 55

 

[modo22]

Take: Boli GM / Put: Monte Petite Edmundo (09) or Monte #1 (09)
I believe the Petite Edmundo wouldn't work being that it's around a $5 smoke as opposed to a BGM, which for the most part a $9 stick.

Take: Tat Frank / Put: Tat Drac
I for one would say no to this P/T solely because I wouldn't want the box smelling like paint
Take: ?? / Put: Anejo 55

Thanks for the response Los,

I paid around 8.50 for the petite Eds and the #1s in a sampler, I was trying to find the msrp and thought it was around that. But I can change that up if need be. Trust me on the Dracs…no paint. I did not have that much smell when I got them, but either way, I stored them out of the box for almost 2 weeks.

 

[drunkfish3]

Take: Boli GM / Put: Monte Petite Edmundo (09) or Monte #1 (09)
I believe the Petite Edmundo wouldn't work being that it's around a $5 smoke as opposed to a BGM, which for the most part a $9 stick.

Take: Tat Frank / Put: Tat Drac
I for one would say no to this P/T solely because I wouldn't want the box smelling like paint
Take: ?? / Put: Anejo 55

Thanks for the response Los,

I paid around 8.50 for the petite Eds and the #1s in a sampler, I was trying to find the msrp and thought it was around that. But I can change that up if need be. Trust me on the Dracs…no paint. I did not have that much smell when I got them, but either way, I stored them out of the box for almost 2 weeks.

Based on one of the sites i get the petite at around 8.5 the No1 around 9.5 and the BGM around 12.5.

 

[grateful1]

PE is a little light($.50 to $1.50) depending on when they were bought.

Who put the BGM in and what's the value? Problem solved!

 

[stepthirteen]

I would say no to the Tat Frank ~ Tat Drac based on rarity. Of course what do I know ???.

Jim

 

[modo22]

PE is a little light($.50 to $1.50) depending on when they were bought.

Who put the BGM in and what's the value? Problem solved!

Fair enough...lets go with
Take: Boli PC / Put: Monte Petite Edmundo (09) ? Unless the GM putter matches mine...either way, first pass for me so I am open to your call!

Jim, I guess I can agree on the rarity call...what about a Tat black Robo? I do not think MSRP matches as well as the Drac would, but it is only avail at events when you purchase. Now, I say shacking angry fist, I do not get events out where I live! So it is extremely rare to me...but if you are in NY or FL area...maybe not as rare? IMO.
So if agreed Take: Tat Frank / Put: Tat Black Robo

Third; Take: Oliva Series V Maduro Torp / Put: DPG Blue Generosos.

Thanks for the help guys!

 

[insight]

I will defer to Jim on those tats, I don't chase that shit and honestly don't follow production at all. IMO just find a vendor to baseline the price of all three of those other cigars on if you aren't sure.

 

[jayro75]

Isn't the Tat Black Robo a free giveaway? Yes you have to buy a box of something to get them but these sticks don't have an actual MSRP value. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[modo22]

Isn't the Tat Black Robo a free giveaway? Yes you have to buy a box of something to get them but these sticks don't have an actual MSRP value. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

No, you are right. That is why I threw it out there as an option...I wasn't sure if it would work or not. To me that makes them rare...I can't buy them. If this won't work I will move off of the Frank; If I was going to put anything else in its place it would be a Black Tubo...but then you ask rarity again? So let me know and I will move on to something else

 

[Not A Nice Person]

If we take the other Tat Blacks as a guide, then the 'busto would have to be a $12-14 stick. The Jars were $13 and the tubos were $14, after all. It'd be in that range somewhere.

I'm clueless on the rarity thing. On the one hand, you can only get the 'busto at an event, but you've been ABLE to get them at events for a couple years; production is extremely limited but seems to be ongoing---that, or Pete had a buttload of 'em made and has been sitting on 'em ever since. The Frank, however, was a one-shot deal: there will be no more, ever.

~Boar

 

[Bsneed51]

I guess I'm unclear on why the Frank for Drac isn't even. They were both $13 a stick and limited # run in the monster series correct? 666 boxes of the Franks, and what 1300 boxes of the Drac. I mean, I guess if we're getting that technical on the rarity then yes, but when you get into production runs that small, what is the rarity cutoff?

As far as the Tat robustos, I would say no to that as a put for most anything. They are free giveaways, and I've yet to see them for sale from a vendor anywhere.

All of this is just my opinion, which doesn't count for much either.

 

[modo22]

I guess I'm unclear on why the Frank for Drac isn't even. They were both $13 a stick and limited # run in the monster series correct? 666 boxes of the Franks, and what 1300 boxes of the Drac. I mean, I guess if we're getting that technical on the rarity then yes, but when you get into production runs that small, what is the rarity cutoff?

As far as the Tat robustos, I would say no to that as a put for most anything. They are free giveaways, and I've yet to see them for sale from a vendor anywhere.

All of this is just my opinion, which doesn't count for much either.

I am with you on the Drac/Frank trade being pretty even. But I am open to opinions. The way I looked at it was much the same as you did...I would like to bring this discussion back to an option. After thinking about it I really think a Drac is a fair put.

Lets just agree on no to the black robustos...I do not want the same guy that shut down the "free" Ducati give-a-way to start targeting the tat blacks being "free". :sign:

Let me know guys. Either way, this will go out first thing on Monday once all P/Ts are ok'ed. :thumbs:

Thanks again,
Ben

Edit to add: Happy Sunday! I do not know about you, but it is 64 and sunny here!

 

[stepthirteen]

I guess I'm unclear on why the Frank for Drac isn't even. They were both $13 a stick and limited # run in the monster series correct? 666 boxes of the Franks, and what 1300 boxes of the Drac. I mean, I guess if we're getting that technical on the rarity then yes, but when you get into production runs that small, what is the rarity cutoff?

As far as the Tat robustos, I would say no to that as a put for most anything. They are free giveaways, and I've yet to see them for sale from a vendor anywhere.

All of this is just my opinion, which doesn't count for much either.

Excellent point, however there was twice as many Tat Dracs as there was Tat Franks. To me that is huge. That combined with the Franks coming out over a year ago makes the rarity quite different. Not that it matters a ton, but do an ISO for Franks and see if it is easy to get them. On the other hand do a search for the Dracs and see if they can be had. Honestly the Boris is even tough to get and there was a 1000 boxes of them made. Just my .02. Just wanted to clarify my thinking on it.

Jim

 

[insight]

FWIW I think the argument that something given out at special events cannot be used as a put is flawed. How would you treat a cigar like the DC lancero before it was sold commercially, or the DCSB/any one off weirdo opus? The trick is to establish a value and rarity. In the case of the tat black I would (and have in the past) called the value on it around the same as the corona size just for ease of use. Rarity... well I dunno. I am a believer that price and rarity are a little fluid in passes. In other words some rarity can be made up in price and some price can be made up in rarity. I also am not all about nickel and diming. Half the production size and age seems a bit of a difference but I am not too emotional about it and I will leave that one up to the players. Now if you tried to put something with annual production and the same price for a one time release it would be a different situation. Also, lest it feel like we are bullshitting around, one key reason it matters is because we set trading precedent in passes, keep that in mind. Someone looking for a good put for a Tat Frank/White Owl/Dunhill Estupendo is going to see what was put for it in a pass in the past.

 

[Bsneed51]

I guess I'm unclear on why the Frank for Drac isn't even. They were both $13 a stick and limited # run in the monster series correct? 666 boxes of the Franks, and what 1300 boxes of the Drac. I mean, I guess if we're getting that technical on the rarity then yes, but when you get into production runs that small, what is the rarity cutoff?

As far as the Tat robustos, I would say no to that as a put for most anything. They are free giveaways, and I've yet to see them for sale from a vendor anywhere.

All of this is just my opinion, which doesn't count for much either.

Excellent point, however there was twice as many Tat Dracs as there was Tat Franks. To me that is huge. That combined with the Franks coming out over a year ago makes the rarity quite different. Not that it matters a ton, but do an ISO for Franks and see if it is easy to get them. On the other hand do a search for the Dracs and see if they can be had. Honestly the Boris is even tough to get and there was a 1000 boxes of them made. Just my .02. Just wanted to clarify my thinking on it.

Jim

Well, yes and no. Franks are going to be harder to get because yes there were less of them, and having been out over a year and a half a lot of them are going to be smoked up. An Opus from 2000 will be harder to find than one from 2009 just based on the nature of this hobby. Also, we both know that the Frank was a superior cigar to the Drac, and with the other Drac issues, they are going to be easier to get in an ISO. I'm not sure that desirability makes rarity(yes, that phrase makes sense in my head even if no one else agrees.) :laugh:

I guess in my opinion when you get down to cigars that were made in quantities as low as the monster series a few hundred boxes doesn't seem like a huge rarity difference to me. The Outlaw has a cigar commissioned every year by LFD, and they get 40 boxes. Does that make them ultra rare, and only a cigar in lower quantity could be put for one? I guess that's why the pass host has final say on that kind of stuff. In my pass I would allow it, in your pass you may not.

Phil, as for the Tat Black robusto, your thinking makes more sense than mine. I guess using the "next closest cigar" as a measure of value is the best option. Is there a way to assign rarity to cigars like that?

 

[stepthirteen]

I guess I'm unclear on why the Frank for Drac isn't even. They were both $13 a stick and limited # run in the monster series correct? 666 boxes of the Franks, and what 1300 boxes of the Drac. I mean, I guess if we're getting that technical on the rarity then yes, but when you get into production runs that small, what is the rarity cutoff?

As far as the Tat robustos, I would say no to that as a put for most anything. They are free giveaways, and I've yet to see them for sale from a vendor anywhere.

All of this is just my opinion, which doesn't count for much either.

Excellent point, however there was twice as many Tat Dracs as there was Tat Franks. To me that is huge. That combined with the Franks coming out over a year ago makes the rarity quite different. Not that it matters a ton, but do an ISO for Franks and see if it is easy to get them. On the other hand do a search for the Dracs and see if they can be had. Honestly the Boris is even tough to get and there was a 1000 boxes of them made. Just my .02. Just wanted to clarify my thinking on it.

Jim

Well, yes and no. Franks are going to be harder to get because yes there were less of them, and having been out over a year and a half a lot of them are going to be smoked up. An Opus from 2000 will be harder to find than one from 2009 just based on the nature of this hobby. Also, we both know that the Frank was a superior cigar to the Drac, and with the other Drac issues, they are going to be easier to get in an ISO. I'm not sure that desirability makes rarity(yes, that phrase makes sense in my head even if no one else agrees.) :laugh:

I guess in my opinion when you get down to cigars that were made in quantities as low as the monster series a few hundred boxes doesn't seem like a huge rarity difference to me. The Outlaw has a cigar commissioned every year by LFD, and they get 40 boxes. Does that make them ultra rare, and only a cigar in lower quantity could be put for one? I guess that's why the pass host has final say on that kind of stuff. In my pass I would allow it, in your pass you may not.

Phil, as for the Tat Black robusto, your thinking makes more sense than mine. I guess using the "next closest cigar" as a measure of value is the best option. Is there a way to assign rarity to cigars like that?

Yes and yes you made my argument for me. To simply say that there is less because they where a better cigar and made less of them only confirms what I said. The market drives the value of a cigar and because Franks where a good cigar and there was over half the production makes the rarity factor of the Frank higher IMHO. It was more than just a few hundread more like over twice as many Dracs made then the Franks. Again just my humble opinion.

Jim

 

[grateful1]