Michael Vick

[vortex]

DAMN!

The Eagles have really got a quarterback now. Time will tell but he may be better than anyone thinks.

 

[Fatken]

Agreed, he is a terrific athlete. His passing game is improving,but his style of play lends to a lot of hits and injurys.

Ken

 

[thechenman]

Does this mean that my Michael Vick rookie cards will be worth something again?

 

[MOBIG]

Does this mean that my Michael Vick rookie cards will be worth something again?

His prison mug shot is worth more :laugh:

 

[vortex]

<br />Does this mean that my Michael Vick rookie cards will be worth something again?<br />

<br /><br /><br />

I don't know. But he has potential and I believe in the power of redemption. More than that, he is that rare QB that uses his head. Add to that his toughness and athletic ability and who knows.

The one question that hasn't really been answered is how he'll handle severe injury. He's had a couple broken ribs and an ankle injury. But what happens when he starts accumulating the inevitable nagging pains of a QB in the NFL? Will he be able to rise above the pain and still find a way to win?

 

[Pugman1943]

I never thought I could forgive that SOB for the shit he pulled, but he is working hard to make me change my mind. I think Vortex hit the nail on the head, can he rise above the aches, pain and b/s and become a true game spoiler. Time will tell.

 

[cigarsarge]

As a Pit Bull owner I still have not made my peace with him being allowed back...I will admit he has potential.

 

[vortex]

As a Pit Bull owner I still have not made my peace with him being allowed back...I will admit he has potential.

I hate it when humans are cruel to animals or each other, for that matter. But animals have no capacity to understand why they are being mistreated, unlike us.

Growing up, I got to know a wonderful pit bull in my neighborhood. She had a sweet disposition and was very protective of her family. I also witnessed an owner who mistreated his pit bull with tragic results. So I had an early lesson in how pit bulls can be nurtured or warped depending on their training, like any other dog. Many people have a skewed perception of pit bulls due to poor and cruel training of some. They are actually great dogs by nature. So I can relate on a personal level to the horrible crime Vick committed.

But I also have had experience with the human ability to change due to feeling genuine remorse. I also have witnessed the healing power of forgiveness and the redemption that can follow if it's sincere.

From what I've seen and heard from Vick, I think he's sincere and I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Criminals can reform. Humans can redeem themselves. Thank God because we would be in deep doo doo if every criminal was a criminal until the day he or she died.

 

[NASTY]

His SP card actually went up about $20 since his first start. It was dirt cheap not too long ago.

I've always been a fan of Mike Vick ever since his VT days. I don't see the Eagles signing him long term. I think Jerry Jones would snag him away during the off season with a big payday and finally send Tony Homo packing

 

[Dozerhead]

I believe in second chances and redemption, too, but there is really no way of telling if he is sincere or not. It's one thing to say the right things, but only time will tell if what he says is truly genuine.

I will say this, he definitely has learned how to become a complete quarterback. One thing I have heard from him and his teammates is that his work ethic has improved dramatically since his days in Atlanta. Even he admits that back then with the Falcons, he was usually the last one to arrive and the first one to leave. His change in work ethic is definitely a positive step.

The biggest question mark with him now, imo, is his durability. He is not a large person so it will be interesting to see how his body holds up over the next several year taking punishment on a regular basis.

 

[Matthew Adam]

He's put in the work he never did on the football field. Kudos to him for that. Beyond that, I'm not about to condemn or forgive. I dont know know the guy, don't want to. Any statements on his sincerity are at best guesses.

 

[:Monty:]

I believe in forgiveness and redemption but I have a hard time watching him have any success. I'm a dog lover. I have four of them and the amount of joy that they bring my family is immeasurable. Any person that can commit those types of heartless atrocities does not deserve to be held on a pedestal for anything, let alone how fast he can run.

He shouldn't be in the league period. I don't care about having paid his debt to society. I work in the financial industry and carry a license that does not allow me to have a felony on my record. If I did what Vick did I wouldn't be able to get out of jail and go right back to the office. It's ridiculous.



edit: grammar

 

[Matthew Adam]

I'm in general agreement with Monty. Other felons would have to spend the rest of their busting ass just to become poor members of society. I just don't believe anyone who did the kind of things this guy did is so truly sincerely rehabilitated so easily. I guarantee in his heart his remorse is far less than what he puts forth in his image. And if it wasn't court ordered he wouldn't be raising "awareness" about the wrongs he committed. He wouldn't do it because he believed he was wrong and owed anyone anything. 95% of the people in this world don't seek to make amends for anything they do. They just generally try to move on. I believe he wants to move on, and perhaps he's learned not to break the law. But as far as sincerity about helping dogs, caring about dogs, and truly believing how criminal what he did was - I'm not buying that. Not ever. He's doing what he has to do to play football. Big deal.

Not a fan of his, never will be. Hey, I'm sure I burned a few caterpillars with a magnifying glass as a kid. Every kid does some destructive things at some point, and hopefully learns better. Difference is the guy ain't a kid, and wasn't when he did it. Crimes like this (severely malicious to a living thing) are often gateway crimes to things like murder and serial killing, and that's scientifically studied. Of course I'm not saying that's where he's headed. But what I am saying is it is fucking seriously abnormal and deranged to have done what he did. I'm not buying the 3 year free and clear rehab and remorse story from him at all.

Keep in mind this is coming from a sports fan, but a fan who is severely disillusioned with sports figures. I don't think much of their idolization in pop culture. I never expect much from athletes as people. Some genuine individuals out there in sports are truly good people. The rest are just dudes playing a game who I don't know and will never know.

 

[theorangeman]

DAMN!

The Eagles have really got a quarterback now. Time will tell but he may be better than anyone thinks.

You're right in that time will tell because I highly doubt that he can consistently produce like what we saw earlier this week. Although this is coming from a big McNabb fan... what a classy guy and oh yeah, he did wear Orange back in the day. :thumbs:

 

[Dozerhead]

I'm in general agreement with Monty. Other felons would have to spend the rest of their busting ass just to become poor members of society. I just don't believe anyone who did the kind of things this guy did is so truly sincerely rehabilitated so easily. I guarantee in his heart his remorse is far less than what he puts forth in his image. And if it wasn't court ordered he wouldn't be raising "awareness" about the wrongs he committed. He wouldn't do it because he believed he was wrong and owed anyone anything. 95% of the people in this world don't seek to make amends for anything they do. They just generally try to move on. I believe he wants to move on, and perhaps he's learned not to break the law. But as far as sincerity about helping dogs, caring about dogs, and truly believing how criminal what he did was - I'm not buying that. Not ever. He's doing what he has to do to play football. Big deal.

Not a fan of his, never will be. Hey, I'm sure I burned a few caterpillars with a magnifying glass as a kid. Every kid does some destructive things at some point, and hopefully learns better. Difference is the guy ain't a kid, and wasn't when he did it. Crimes like this (severely malicious to a living thing) are often gateway crimes to things like murder and serial killing, and that's scientifically studied. Of course I'm not saying that's where he's headed. But what I am saying is it is fucking seriously abnormal and deranged to have done what he did. I'm not buying the 3 year free and clear rehab and remorse story from him at all.

Keep in mind this is coming from a sports fan, but a fan who is severely disillusioned with sports figures. I don't think much of their idolization in pop culture. I never expect much from athletes as people. Some genuine individuals out there in sports are truly good people. The rest are just dudes playing a game who I don't know and will never know.

This is a good post. I think fans of his are far too willing to forget what he did, or don't even care, and what he did was pretty damn disgusting in my opinion. I am a dog lover myself and I will never understand how someone can be so cruel and inhumane. What I don't get is how many people make excuses for what he did, or think that he somehow has magically turned over a new leaf. Maybe he has, who knows? But I tend to be more on the skeptical side myself. I can guarantee you one thing though, if he hadn't been caught he would still be doing the same thing he was doing 3 years ago.

I love sports, too, especially football, but I think we often put these guys on a pedestal and try to make them into something they are not. We tend to be especially forgiving of athletes for almost any offense as long as they are performing well on the field, and I think there is something seriously wrong with that.

 

[khari]

...Crimes like this (severely malicious to a living thing) are often gateway crimes to things like murder and serial killing, and that's scientifically studied...

Not the same thing. He wasn't pulling the legs off these dogs and torturing them like many in these studies you mention tended to do. He really had no regard for the dogs at all, which is a completely different study then you reference and has nothing to do with serial killing.

I am an animal lover and I think what he did was wrong, but I also understand that he was raised in that lifestyle and that could taint his judgment. Is he sincere when he says what he says about dog fighting being wrong? Probably not. But who cares as long as he's not simultaneously promoting dog fights? He got caught up in the glitz and glamour and believing he was untouchable. He now knows better.

He's a big sports figure and as long as he's saying it, some may heed his advice.

 

[Matthew Adam]

...Crimes like this (severely malicious to a living thing) are often gateway crimes to things like murder and serial killing, and that's scientifically studied...

Not the same thing. He wasn't pulling the legs off these dogs and torturing them like many in these studies you mention tended to do. He really had no regard for the dogs at all, which is a completely different study then you reference and has nothing to do with serial killing.

I am an animal lover and I think what he did was wrong, but I also understand that he was raised in that lifestyle and that could taint his judgment. Is he sincere when he says what he says about dog fighting being wrong? Probably not. But who cares as long as he's not simultaneously promoting dog fights? He got caught up in the glitz and glamour and believing he was untouchable. He now knows better.

He's a big sports figure and as long as he's saying it, some may heed his advice.

Well I definitely don't know enough about the studies to disagree with your info on it. I know he wasn't torturing them in horrid gruesome ways, but he also wasn't affording them any compassion whatsoever. It's still borderline in my opinion. Going out of your way to drown them and slam them to the ground to death isn't the same as putting a bullet in their head without hesitation. He was finding interesting ways to kill them and I'm sure in the scenario that him and his buddies were whooping it up while it happened as well. Pretty sick scene. My point is only that I will never believe such things fade away as easily as he puts forth.

It's also a general skepticism on my part with these events in pro sports. Every time some guy breaks the law he's always on TV doing interviews saying the same exact lines as every other guy about sincerity and remorse. That's exactly why it isn't sincere. There's no reflection on exactly what they've done, why it feels wrong, there's no reference to their own self and life, and their personal experience. It's the same lines. If it was truly sincere each guy would be sitting there thinking about it, replaying the moments, and relaying their thoughts on those events. They never are. It's always "are you remorseful?" - "Oh, of course I am. I can't believe what I did." That's not nearly enough to convince me. Frankly, I buy that line from about 1% of these guys.
The rest of them are coached by their image consultants or lawyers, and all they really learn is how to be douchebags but be smarter and more sly about continuing to be douchebags. All they really learn is how not to think they are untouchable, in public. But I believe many of them continue to be the same douchebags, and may always be. Lawyers don't give a shit about what these guys do, as long as it stays hidden. That's the message they are getting, don't get caught and take it down a notch. That ain't rehabilitation.

Same as I believe Vick will be walking around like his shit don't stink real soon, probably as soon as he signs that monster shoe deal this offseason. He knows better now, but he only knows better than to let everyone else in the world know what he's about. Just my opinion. None of these guys are heroes, or even necessarily good people. Most of them are athletically superior to the rest of us, but in no way does that prepare them to be even marginally decent human beings. Their idolization is comical to me because the public simply doesn't know what kind of people they really are, and their only exploits have nothing to do with any credible improvement humanity or model of any kind to live by. It's not their actions or choices that define anything about them, and actions and choices define the leaders of a society. It's their born ability in a game, unless you are also born with that ability what should that matter to the average person. I think it's more about living vicariously through someone more fortunate, kinda sad deficit of self esteem when you think about it.

i will definitely give you that considering how stupid and impressionable the average kid is today, just the fact that he's saying publicly not to do something may have a positive effect. I guess my problem is more than Vick. It's the place of sports altogether in society.

 

[vortex]

I agree that the idolization of athletes, and celebrities in general, is a troubling symptom of our voyeuristic society. But of all the crap televised and in print in this country, live sports is the only thing I actually enjoy. Everything else is a reminder of how screwed we are culturally, economically, and educationally. In fact, that may be why it is overemphasized by the media - to distract us while we are all being fleeced and flummoxed!

But knowing that, I still enjoy watching sports. Go figure?