It's the FITH of May

[Devil Doc]

Karl Marx, born in Trier, Prussia (1818). His theory was that the economic system was a perpetual conflict between those who controlled the capital and those who provided the labor. He believed that the conflict would never be resolved peacefully because capitalism was too volatile.

Marx spent the last years of his life in London, where he worked on his last book, Das Kapital (1867) in the reading room of the British Museum. He slowly sank into poverty, having to avoid creditors, pawn his furniture and fight off eviction. When one of his children died of disease, his wife had to borrow money from a neighbor to buy a coffin. When Marx died in 1883, only eleven people came to his funeral.


Doc.

 

[ThankYouForNotSmoking]

And what few people realize is that his most important contribution to society was not 'Communism', per say, but powerful analytical tools to look at the industrial age and post-industrial societies. His ideas also enabled people like Fredrich von Hayek and Milton Friedman to refine a rather brutal industrial ethic into neo-liberalism. As easy as it may seem to be to write Marx off, modern scholarship in a huge number of fields is seriously indebted to his theories, even if they weren't perfect by themselves.




Edited to add: I realize that now my 'Self-Proclaimed Everyman's Man' tag and this post might make some people think I'm a raging Communist. I'm really much more of a fascists, jeez.

 

[CasaSoho]

And what few people realize is that his most important contribution to society was not 'Communism', per say, but powerful analytical tools to look at the industrial age and post-industrial societies. His ideas also enabled people like Fredrich von Hayek and Milton Friedman to refine a rather brutal industrial ethic into neo-liberalism. As easy as it may seem to be to write Marx off, modern scholarship in a huge number of fields is seriously indebted to his theories, even if they weren't perfect by themselves.




Edited to add: I realize that now my 'Self-Proclaimed Everyman's Man' tag and this post might make some people think I'm a raging Communist. I'm really much more of a fascists, jeez.

I would argue that the blood of many millions are also indebted to his theories. I was unaware that Marx left this world so subdued, another interesting history lesson Devil Doc.

 

[AVB]

I have to questrion your use of Milton Friedman who was a libertairian monetarist and who believed that government role in the guidance of the economy should be severely restricted, as a direct refuter of Marxian theory. Since his influence began 100 years after Das Kapital I would think that Ludwig von Mises or Arthur Pigou would be the intermediate steps and Friedman built on that. IMO.

 

[smokelaw1]

I would argue that the blood of many millions are also indebted to his theories. I was unaware that Marx left this world so subdued, another interesting history lesson Devil Doc.

When you say "the blood of many millions are also indebted," I imagine you mean due tot he wars that the countries that eventually built governments based on theories based on his works fought? If that is the case, what major political movement of the last 4 thousand or so years does NOT have the blood of thousands on its hands?

 

[CasaSoho]

I would argue that the blood of many millions are also indebted to his theories. I was unaware that Marx left this world so subdued, another interesting history lesson Devil Doc.

When you say "the blood of many millions are also indebted," I imagine you mean due tot he wars that the countries that eventually built governments based on theories based on his works fought? If that is the case, what major political movement of the last 4 thousand or so years does NOT have the blood of thousands on its hands?

Your 100% correct in your assertion that every "political movement of the last 4 thousand or so years" has the blood of "thousands" on its hands. It is my opinion that the theories of Marx have resulted consequences unparalleled by any other in modern history. Particularly as they relate to Mao's China. If you would like to contend that Mao perverted Marx's beliefs, I'll listen. However, you can't deny the influence the teachings of Marx had on Mao.

 

[ThankYouForNotSmoking]

Oh I'm not denying his theories didn't end up in the wrong hands, but, I think the dictators that implemented his theories were much more concerned with their own personal power than Marxist theory. Marx would have probably argued that China and Russia were not ready for a Communist government, after all, he argued that only when the government arises organically out of a working class would a society be ready for Communism - this has never happened, it's always been a top-down implementation.

And, Milton Friedman could not have happened without Marx. He was largely writing in repsonse to different incarnations of Marxist economic theory. His work was a response to the influence Marxist theory was having on his time.

Edited to add: I'm not arguing that Marxist governments are good, better or even possible. They are hopelessly flawed, however, the critical eye that Marx employed in creating his theories IS hugely important to especially post-modern schools of thought.

 

[smokelaw1]

Agreed on all counts, with both CasaSoho and TYFNS.

See, now THIS type of political conversation is possible in a happy, healthy community. Someobody please correct me if we are trendiong too close to the line.

 

[Robbmt]

Also celebrating the birth of Buddha.

 

[hydro-terp]

I would argue that the blood of many millions are also indebted to his theories. I was unaware that Marx left this world so subdued, another interesting history lesson Devil Doc.

When you say "the blood of many millions are also indebted," I imagine you mean due tot he wars that the countries that eventually built governments based on theories based on his works fought? If that is the case, what major political movement of the last 4 thousand or so years does NOT have the blood of thousands on its hands?

While undenialably blood has been spilled over the millenia by all forms of government, the maxist/communist governments of the modern era have been responsible for millions of deaths to its own popluation outside of war time. Just look at the train wreck that is North Korea and the purges of Stalin in the 30's etc.

It could be argued that virtually every nation has some skeletons in its closets regarding things such as this but I dare say only the marxist and the communists continued this practice beyond the era of colonial times. And surely the other nations didnt perpetuate it on the scale of the before mentioned.

Marxism and communism look good on paper but comes far short of their promises.

Russell

 

[LilBastage]

Ahhhh...memories of college swimming in my head. Sitting at the coffee shop smoking hand rolled Drum cigarettes, drinking poorly made black tar, and "discoursing" with friends and foes alike.

Anyone care to discuss the advantages/disadvantages of carefully crafted large mammary glands vis-a-vis their natural counterparts? Specifically regarding appearance and usefullness during an extended period of repeated vertical propulsion?


Anyone???

 

[ThankYouForNotSmoking]

I would argue that the blood of many millions are also indebted to his theories. I was unaware that Marx left this world so subdued, another interesting history lesson Devil Doc.

When you say "the blood of many millions are also indebted," I imagine you mean due tot he wars that the countries that eventually built governments based on theories based on his works fought? If that is the case, what major political movement of the last 4 thousand or so years does NOT have the blood of thousands on its hands?

While undenialably blood has been spilled over the millenia by all forms of government, the maxist/communist governments of the modern era have been responsible for millions of deaths to its own popluation outside of war time. Just look at the train wreck that is North Korea and the purges of Stalin in the 30's etc.

It could be argued that virtually every nation has some skeletons in its closets regarding things such as this but I dare say only the marxist and the communists continued this practice beyond the era of colonial times. And surely the other nations didnt perpetuate it on the scale of the before mentioned.

Marxism and communism look good on paper but comes far short of their promises.

Russell

In the interest of historical accuracy, while I'm aware neither of these events killed nearly as many of their own citizens as Maoist China or Stalinistic Russia - almost all modern examples of genocide have been perpetrated on one nations citizens, ie. the Bosniaks in Sarajevo during 93-94 were as much Yugoslavian as the Serbs, the Tutsis in Rwanda were as much Rwandan as the Hutus, the Jews in German were as much German as the Nazis, etc, etc. None of those governments were by any means even tied to Marxism in popular conception. So it's not only post-colonial Communist governments with these grievances on their records.

 

[RGD]

Ahhhh...memories of college swimming in my head. Sitting at the coffee shop smoking hand rolled Drum cigarettes, drinking poorly made black tar, and "discoursing" with friends and foes alike.

Anyone care to discuss the advantages/disadvantages of carefully crafted large mammary glands vis-a-vis their natural counterparts? Specifically regarding appearance and usefullness during an extended period of repeated vertical propulsion?


Anyone???

Ummmm - more than a handful is a waste? :blush:

Ron

 

[cigarsarge]

[/quote]

Ummmm - more than a handful is a waste? :blush:

Ron
[/quote]


Nope... Not a chance.