How inaccurate are YOUR Hygro's? - Mine are BAD: LOOK INSIDE

[Toaster]

So I decided to re-calibrate my hygro's before I make the switch over to the beads... what the hell, I havn't done the salt test in --- MANY YEARS.

I got a couple (2) freezer bags, cut a plastic cup down, made some air vent grooves along the top edge, poured in a bunch of table salt from Wal-Mart (the GV brand), added some water until I got it to wet sand consistency, lined up my 8 hygro's in the bag, sealed it all together, then sealed that inside another freezer bag.

Did this all around 10pm last night (started earlier yesterday with 2 hygro's in plastic bucket with a lid, then decided I should do them all at once - makes for a better picture.... so this afternoon, after about 14 hours (g/t) sealed in the salt bags, I've got 7 different readings!!! WHOA. I read the thread about different salt giving you different RH levels... I wish I read that BEFORE I went to the store and bought the bags and the salt, I didn't want to make another trip late in the evening (ie: lazy)

ANYWAY: the red text on the picture is the RH level after about 14 hours in there, the green text is the brand/manufacture or place of purchase.

The 2 big dial analog hygro's are from 2 of my desktop's, they were the ones included. They are from Supreme Humidor. The round black digitals are the digital replacements I bought (long time ago), also made by the Supreme Humidor company. The black "generic smoke shop" one I bought from a cigar shop - no clue who makes it. The wireless brookstone one is part of a wireless weather forecasting thing I bought from Brookstone. The other 2 (holmes/generic) came from either Wal-mart or Target, I can't remember.

I put fresh batteries in most of them just before I started the test, the others had batteries from just a couple weeks ago.

Now, since I have NO IDEA what exactly the RH is in there, I've got a 11% spread here..... :sign: now what!?

 

[Big Stick]

Salt test
Every 6 months

See I learning Masters

 

[vortex]

Assuming you have the right slurry consistency of salt/water, the Walmart one is the only one correct! I just had a similar experience. It had been a year since I salt tested after I had purchased some new ones so I just did it again.

Out of 7, 1 was 4rh change, 2 were 2 rh change, 3 were the same and 1 only changed by 1 rh since last year. It goes to show you that you should #1 TRUST THE BEADS, #2 re-calibrate if you want to have any faith in your readings.

I find it a bit odd that so many of yours are off by so much. Perhaps Viper's Calibration Kit would help add some confidence to the test results.

Steve

 

[Ginseng]

Any true table salt you can buy in a grocery store (iodized or not) is likely to result in a true relative humidity that is indistinguishable from 75% I wouldn't worry about that being a factor.

1. Try the test again but add enough water so that there is a thin layer of clear water above the undissolved salt.

2. Use a roomy rubbermaid or tupperware container.

If the results replicate then your hygrometers are reading with the indicated offsets.

Once you receive your beads, repeat the test under the exact same conditions. Note the offsets. If they are stable, then you are ready to rock. For example, if the Walmart and Holmes (75%/64% salt) read 65%/54% with 65% beads, then that means the offset does not vary with the actual RH. If, however, you get 65%/62%, then I'd be inclined to believe the Walmart and not the Holmes. The reason being if the offset is 5% at one RH, 10% at another, 7% at another, and 1% at yet another RH, then unless you are able to determine the offsets at exactly the conditions of interest, then you'll never really know what you've got.

Of course it could be argued that the offset in the beads condition is going to be what you go by and I could see that being the case. But there are also reasons to be wary.

It seems almost reflex to say "get some beads and forget it," kick back and never worry about RH again. But I don't think even Viper would give you that advice. Beads need maintenance like any other humidity manipulating device and their successful operation depends on knowing and adhering to proper use conditions and upkeep.

Wilkey

 

[mr.mac]

Quite frankly, if my hygros are reading in the "ballpark", I'm satisfied. Both have calibrated at minimum 4% off and at maximum 6% off, yet in their storage environments are reading 7% off. They are holding rock steady at these percentages though and with properly kept beads (60 wet, 40 dry), I'm just convinced that 2% have gone lost... or at least unexplained for...

Wilkey is right, beads do require some maintenance... so don't actually "forget" about them. But in my opinion, forget about the worries of greatly overhumidifying and/or underhumidifying. Beads give me peace of mind with my precious smokes...

mac

 

[Allofus123]

......after about 14 hours.......

Are you sure your hygro's are completely settled after 14 hours? I bet if you leave them for a full 24 a few of them will change some. I'd leave them in longer then take the two or three digitals that read closest to 75 and redo the test as Wilkey suggest. See if you get a similar result. BTW, I'd toss the analog dials.

now what!?

Stop buying cheap hygros? :laugh:

 

[rectifythis]

Assuming you have the right slurry consistency of salt/water, the Walmart one is the only one correct!

That's a friggin miracle right there. All Wally hygro's have been virtually worthless to me.

 

[IanHummel]

Assuming you have the right slurry consistency of salt/water, the Walmart one is the only one correct!

That's a friggin miracle right there. All Wally hygro's have been virtually worthless to me.

I'm re-calibrating mine right now. I have 2oz of 65% viper beads in my desktop with about 50 sticks in it and it's reading 61% which has me a little confused. The the amount of beads I have in the humi, there should be no reason that it's not spot on 65%.

Also, I'm having a very hard time reading th beads in the tube and telling what is clear and what is hydrated. It's next to impossible to see through this outside casing that they have on it.

EDIT:
After talking with Viper it seems as though the cedar in my humi is still taking the humidity from the beads and absorbing it. He said it's likely not the hygro, but the fact that the cedar isn't fully seasoned yet.

 

[CigarStone]

I have had wildly varying results from hygros both digital and analog.

Recently I gathered up all the hygros I had (10) and charted them in various conditions and they were so inconsistent I gave up. I charted them roughly at 4 hour intervals for 24 hours in each condition.

In the basement which is typically 67-70 degrees and 64%- 67% they were all over the place which I attributed to varying quality.

In the second floor of the house where the temp was 74-75, the hygros varied wildly again but not on any sort of scale. Some were 3-4 % lower, some were 6-8 % lower, some were the same.

Outside where it was 87 degrees and 80%, some which were higher % on the second floor than the basement were lower outside than on the second floor. There was absolutely no way to chart any logic.

I gave up and used my two best hygros in the coolers and use the others to measure the changes in my basement and in the bag where I keep Humidipaks.

 

[vortex]

I agree that one can get a bit anal in controlling RH. But being able to trust your hygrometers just alleviates this worry so you can get back to enjoying your smokes.

Once again, I also think it a bit suspicious that they all read low. Your salt slurry may have been a bit dry. Like Wilkey advised - a thin layer of water on top will ensure you have adequate saturation.

Steve

 

[Toaster]

Let me address a couple of things. I am re-doing the salt test again, in a different container. I'm using a plastic rubber-maid like casserole type dish thing. Sealed and then wrapped in clear plastic wrap - There ain't no air getting in or out!

I re-mixed the salt mixture, I added water and stirred until I got a little water on top of the wet salt. (for what it worth, I used tap water) I took some pictures.. It was hard to see the white salty water on top, so I pushed some of the salt to one side to show there was excess water in the cup/container. Here are a couple of pictures with the salt pushed to each side.




I've never been very anal about the RH in my boxes. I'm of the opinion if you're close and the cigars arent soggy or dry, you're good. I'm sorry I started this salt test crap now, and definitely sorry I put ALL my hygro's in there at the same time! I would have been ok with all of them within 5-6% of each other, but 11% is pretty wild. Remember that MOST of the hygro's I were purchased from cigar shops with their intended use to be as cigar RH pieces! And supposedly calibrated with our RH levels in mind, etc. As I recall I paid about $25/ea for those round supreme digitals, and close to $20 ea for the other digital devices.... I think I got ripped off on the square generic one - I think I paid like $35 for it back in the day!? I guess they are not cheap hygro's just crappy ones!

So like I said, I'm re-doing the test again. I replaced the batteries in the other round one (which was only a couple weeks old) just because... the other batteries were replaced the other day when I started this shtuff.

Now, since with the range of readings I'm getting in there, I truly have NO CLUE what the actual RH is in there. They've been in there since 4pm yesterday, and I won't even look at it until after 4pm today so it will have at least 24 hours to rest and settle in the container. I will take more pictures and post my results when its done later today.

I'm assuming the RH should be 75% inside the container. If that is in fact the case, then MOST of my hygro's are pathetically off set, and its definitely time for some new hygro's. I also intend to drop by one of the cigar shops and see about leaving my hygro's there in one of the lockers, or areas that should be at 70% and it monitored by another hygro - just to verify my findings. I'm not sure I'll be able to leave the hygro's there for 24 hours, but I'm sure I can "burn" 4 or more hours in a cigar shop! :whistling: I may wait until Saturday and go visit with Preembargo for a while.


TO BE CONTINUED...

 

[Ginseng]

Thanks for the update, Toaster. Can't wait to see what the results are.

Wilkey

 

[Allofus123]

Toaster.... you are absolutely correct in quite a bit of what you are saying. Unless one is doing long term storage or has thousands of dollars worth of cigars to store there is no reason to be anal about it. Anyone that has smoked cigars for a while can tell when a cigar is too wet or too dry just by picking it up. I don't concern myself too much with the actual reading on mine. I watch for it being steady in its reading and if I start to see a dip of 3 or 4% I know its time to add water.

Your salt slurry will produce 75% humidity. You will not have a more accurate gauge taking it to a smoke shop humidor. The salt slurry will be 75%. If your hygro's are off of 75% after this 24 hour period just note the difference on each unit and be done with it.

 

[Toaster]

Toaster.... you are absolutely correct in quite a bit of what you are saying. Unless one is doing long term storage or has thousands of dollars worth of cigars to store there is no reason to be anal about it. Anyone that has smoked cigars for a while can tell when a cigar is too wet or too dry just by picking it up. I don't concern myself too much with the actual reading on mine. I watch for it being steady in its reading and if I start to see a dip of 3 or 4% I know its time to add water.

Your salt slurry will produce 75% humidity. You will not have a more accurate gauge taking it to a smoke shop humidor. The salt slurry will be 75%. If your hygro's are off of 75% after this 24 hour period just note the difference on each unit and be done with it.

Thank you. I've always felt that way, but I didn't want to sound like a snob or an idiot either... "oh I can tell about a cigar just by picking it up" lol!

This whole calibration thing has just become my obsession for the last couple of days while I'm seasoning and conditioning my beads --- thats all :thumbs:


I'm shocked at how much variation there are in these stupid meters.... Crap quality in my opinion. BUT LIVE AND LEARN. Most of these were bought way back in the day, but honestly - before now - I would have STILL bought Supreme's products again, thinking they were fine.... now I know differently.

Well to continue this for the archives here, and someone later might re-read this thread and learn something? I have concluded my Hygro tests. I am going to do exactly that, as Allofus123 suggested, mark my offsets on each one again - and be freakin' done.

I noted the original readings from the first salt test, the second readings of this latest salt test, all except for the Brookstone one because it didn't fit in the container properly - so screw it... its usually outside anyway!

One of the round supreme digital hygro's is pretty accurate (assuming the RH is 75%) within +/- 1%, the other one is still within a degree or two of the original test, and the original salt test and offset I had marked on it from SEVERAL YEARS AGO, same for the little square one from a cigar shop... All the "cigar" intended hygro's basically came in at about the exact same level, or were all off by close to the same levels based between the 2 tests.

The 2 NOT intended for cigar use, The walmart one is +5 higher now on the 2nd test vs. the 1st one, and the holmes is a +3% higher now too.

Bottom line? make of it what you will. Honestly, I'm done. :sign:

 

[tizlaney]

I know how you feel......i wish i had some advice

If your cigars are the way you like then keep doing what ur doing

 

[IanHummel]

After trying to re-calibrate mine, I've also just come to the conclusion that it's off. I did the salt test again and it read 72%. After putting it back in my humi with 65% beads it's reading 61%. I'm assuming this will be ok as long as it doesn't continue to drop anymore.

 

[Toaster]

Here's one of the good points you can get from reading this thread and seeing the pictures. MOST OF THE HYGRO'S ARE OFF... There you'll see a couple from the same manufacture, with a RH difference. Listen to the advice being given, and mark your hygro as offset by 3% (ie: add 3% or +3%) near your reading, that way you'll know that its showing is about 3 percent off, so your 72 is actually more like 75. and your 61 is more like 64%.

 

[viper139]

Here's one of the good points you can get from reading this thread and seeing the pictures. MOST OF THE HYGRO'S ARE OFF... There you'll see a couple from the same manufacture, with a RH difference. Listen to the advice being given, and mark your hygro as offset by 3% (ie: add 3% or +3%) near your reading, that way you'll know that its showing is about 3 percent off, so your 72 is actually more like 75. and your 61 is more like 64%.

If you are interested PM me your addy and I will send you a Boveda Calibration Kit, it would be interesting to compare results.

David

 

[AngryFishH]

Great input by all... but I have a question/comment...

Because of the discrepancies in all of my hydro's I have come to this model for all of my X-adors. I take an appropriate amount of beads for the volume of the container and let it "season" until stabilized. Then I completely ignore the reading on the hydro.

For analog hydro's I use a black sharpie and make a mark where I believe "normal" is based on the beads. So if I am using 65%RH beads and my hydro shows 68% I just draw my line on the hydro over the needle. Now when the needle drops I need to add water and I trust my senses when I pick out sticks to see if they are too wet/dry for my taste.

For digitals I just write down what it thought was "normal" and add water when it goes lower.

Because of the variances in cigar construction, country of origin, personal taste, etc... this is much easier then recalibrating and lets me keep my cigars the way I like them without getting an ulcer worrying about RH levels.

What do you guys/gals think?

 

[Toaster]

Here's one of the good points you can get from reading this thread and seeing the pictures. MOST OF THE HYGRO'S ARE OFF... There you'll see a couple from the same manufacture, with a RH difference. Listen to the advice being given, and mark your hygro as offset by 3% (ie: add 3% or +3%) near your reading, that way you'll know that its showing is about 3 percent off, so your 72 is actually more like 75. and your 61 is more like 64%.

If you are interested PM me your addy and I will send you a Boveda Calibration Kit, it would be interesting to compare results.

David

PM sent. This should be interesting.