Are there cuban cigar types?

[Danforz]

Hey all. I'm semi-new to the Cuban cigar world. With that said, should I be on the look out for different leaf fermentation (natural vs. maduro) or other cigar "types"? I know that maduros exist in the ISOM world but I rarely seem to hear about it minus the new Cohiba Maduro. Are there other wrapper shades and types? Or is it all really a matter of region?

Thanks guys,
Daniel

 

[badhangover]

I know that maduros exist in the ISOM world but I rarely seem to hear about it minus the new Cohiba Maduro.

That's because, other than the new Cohiba Maduro, they don't exist. There are, however, many different wrapper shades. There's no rhyme or reason to the various shades (well, aside from the factors that affect farming). They are just a natural agricultural product that has the variances one might expect from crop to crop. They are sorted after production to provide a uniform box presentation to the consumer.

 

[grateful1]

I know that maduros exist in the ISOM world but I rarely seem to hear about it minus the new Cohiba Maduro.

That's because, other than the new Cohiba Maduro, they don't exist. There are, however, many different wrapper shades. There's no rhyme or reason to the various shades (well, aside from the factors that affect farming). They are just a natural agricultural product that has the variances one might expect from crop to crop. They are sorted after production to provide a uniform box presentation to the consumer.

Linky

Linky2

Linky3

Linky4

 

[dave43]

Thanks for the articles grateful. It looks like they have been labelled as maduro in the past. I found the CA article about the new hybrid tobacco to be very interesting. It looks like yields might be up but what about quality????

 

[grateful1]

Thanks for the articles grateful. It looks like they have been labelled as maduro in the past. I found the CA article about the new hybrid tobacco to be very interesting. It looks like yields might be up but what about quality? ???

2006 stock is and appears to be fantastic!

Time will tell.

 

[nyip1]

I know that maduros exist in the ISOM world but I rarely seem to hear about it minus the new Cohiba Maduro.

That's because, other than the new Cohiba Maduro, they don't exist. There are, however, many different wrapper shades. There's no rhyme or reason to the various shades (well, aside from the factors that affect farming). They are just a natural agricultural product that has the variances one might expect from crop to crop. They are sorted after production to provide a uniform box presentation to the consumer.

Linky

Linky2

Linky3

Linky4

Very nice articles. I would never have found it. Thanks

 

[N2Advnture]

If memory serves correctly, the H2000 wrapper was "fire proof" and was eventually done away with as well (it may have been the Criollo, I'll try to find my info)

~M

 

[N2Advnture]

The "fire proof" wrapper from 99-01 was the H92 followed by the intro of H2000 on a larger scale... but I also know that they moved more and more to hybrids of the H2000 fairly quickly.

In interviews with D.A. Robaina, they change strands ever 7 years for disease resistance (VR provides up to 80% of wrappers and hardly, if any, of their vega provides filler - so he would know).

VR:

"The reason for 7 years between stain changes? Cuban bioengineers work to make their tobacco resistant to diseases such as the dreaded blue mold. The have found that it takes approx. 7 years before these disease become immune to the tobacco's resistance properties."


Useful info: Cigars in 207 are actually made from 2005 tobacco. 2-3 years is normally the amount of time it takes for a Cuban cigar to go from harvest to sale.

I hope this helps

~Mark

 

[grateful1]

The "fire proof" wrapper from 99-01 was the H92 followed by the intro of H2000 on a larger scale... but I also know that they moved more and more to hybrids of the H2000 fairly quickly.

In interviews with D.A. Robaina, they change strands ever 7 years for disease resistance (VR provides up to 80% of wrappers and hardly, if any, of their vega provides filler - so he would know).

VR:

"The reason for 7 years between stain changes? Cuban bioengineers work to make their tobacco resistant to diseases such as the dreaded blue mold. The have found that it takes approx. 7 years before these disease become immune to the tobacco's resistance properties."


Useful info: Cigars in 207 are actually made from 2005 tobacco. 2-3 years is normally the amount of time it takes for a Cuban cigar to go from harvest to sale.

I hope this helps

~Mark

If memory servers, it was the 2006 cigars that started with the aged tobacco trend. Prior cigars would get 'sick' within a few months of rolling and stay that way unitl the period ended (12-18 months).

I've noticed my 2006 and 2007 items have not gotten 'as sick' (less of an ammonia odor) ...and the period is sickness seems to be less.

Anyone else?

 

[Black Plague]

In the past, Cuban cigar boxes used to be stamped with the color grade of the wrapper leaf. If you find pics of old 80's and 70's boxes of Cuban cigars, you'll often see a stamp on the bottom reading "Claro," "Claro Claro," or "Maduro" (haven't seen any pics of stamps for "Colorado" or any other variants, but they may exist).

But that was merely for the outward color of the leaf, not exactly like the "Maduro" we see today in NCs, where most "Maduro" leaf is Connecticut Broadleaf that is specially and specifically bred and raised to take on that dark color. Cuban wrapper leaf, up until the introduction of the Edicion Limitadas and the Cohiba Maduro 5, was never given any specific different treatment to make it dark...it just happened to come out of the barn darker or lighter, and was sorted as such.

I hope that makes sense. :laugh:

 

[dave43]

The "fire proof" wrapper from 99-01 was the H92 followed by the intro of H2000 on a larger scale... but I also know that they moved more and more to hybrids of the H2000 fairly quickly.

In interviews with D.A. Robaina, they change strands ever 7 years for disease resistance (VR provides up to 80% of wrappers and hardly, if any, of their vega provides filler - so he would know).

VR:

"The reason for 7 years between stain changes? Cuban bioengineers work to make their tobacco resistant to diseases such as the dreaded blue mold. The have found that it takes approx. 7 years before these disease become immune to the tobacco's resistance properties."


Useful info: Cigars in 207 are actually made from 2005 tobacco. 2-3 years is normally the amount of time it takes for a Cuban cigar to go from harvest to sale.

I hope this helps

~Mark

If memory servers, it was the 2006 cigars that started with the aged tobacco trend. Prior cigars would get 'sick' within a few months of rolling and stay that way unitl the period ended (12-18 months).

I've noticed my 2006 and 2007 items have not gotten 'as sick' (less of an ammonia odor) ...and the period is sickness seems to be less.

Anyone else?

That's interesting. So everyone saying you need to wait 2-3 years in the past should be advising only a year. So untill 2006 the tobacco wasn't aged at all. Do you have a source for this information?

 

[N2Advnture]

That's interesting. So everyone saying you need to wait 2-3 years in the past should be advising only a year. So untill 2006 the tobacco wasn't aged at all. Do you have a source for this information?

Just info I picked up over the years, some of what I posted was from Aiz's interview with Don Alejandro himself.

The 2-3 years from harvest to box is standard, that's just how long it takes to harvest, ferment, sort, roll, box, export, etc...

I am not sure what has changed but agree that cigars produced after late 2005 have nearly zero sick periods but haven't found an explanation as to exactly why.

I hope this helps

~Mark

 

[dave43]

That's interesting. So everyone saying you need to wait 2-3 years in the past should be advising only a year. So untill 2006 the tobacco wasn't aged at all. Do you have a source for this information?

Just info I picked up over the years, some of what I posted was from Aiz's interview with Don Alejandro himself.

The 2-3 years from harvest to box is standard, that's just how long it takes to harvest, ferment, sort, roll, box, export, etc...

I am not sure what has changed but agree that cigars produced after late 2005 have nearly zero sick periods but haven't found an explanation as to exactly why.

I hope this helps

~Mark

I believe the OP was saying that they were aged an additional 2 years on top of the normal time.

 

[N2Advnture]

I believe the OP was saying that they were aged an additional 2 years on top of the normal time.

I think that's the same thing that Grateful1 and I are talking about in regards to "sick periods" (sort of).

The "rule of thumb" was smoke them fresh or wait 12 months from the box code MIN before smoking (longer MIN in the case of PSD4s - 18 mo min).

Most cc's don't start coming around for 2-3 years and many don't start sampling them until at least 5 years.

The additional "2 years" is most likely because of the sick period (another fermentation while in the box) which hasn't been anywhere near as present in smokes after late 2005.

I hope this helps

~Mark

 

[dave43]

I believe the OP was saying that they were aged an additional 2 years on top of the normal time.

I think that's the same thing that Grateful1 and I are talking about in regards to "sick periods" (sort of).

The "rule of thumb" was smoke them fresh or wait 12 months from the box code MIN before smoking (longer MIN in the case of PSD4s - 18 mo min).

Most cc's don't start coming around for 2-3 years and many don't start sampling them until at least 5 years.

The additional "2 years" is most likely because of the sick period (another fermentation while in the box) which hasn't been anywhere near as present in smokes after late 2005.

I hope this helps

~Mark

So are you agreeing with grateful that the factories are aging them an additional 2 years on top of the normal 2-3 years it takes to get them to the market? I just want to clarify because I have never heard of this. I know many boutique manufacturers do this like Padron with Nic tobacco but I have never heard of Cuban marcas aging tobacco.

 

[N2Advnture]

So are you agreeing with grateful that the factories are aging them an additional 2 years on top of the normal 2-3 years it takes to get them to the market? I just want to clarify because I have never heard of this. I know many boutique manufacturers do this like Padron with Nic tobacco but I have never heard of Cuban marcas aging tobacco.

No, I have not heard that other than for RE's & Reservas

 

[grateful1]

In 03 or 04 Cuba started to stock pile leaf for rolling at a later date. Hence the fact the tobacco is older and less box time occurs.

They started this with LE's and moved forward. I know on here there was discussion of it...as well as note from SA.

I'll have to look around. If I'm incorrect...please let me know.(anyone)

Maybe I'm mixing up the LE wrapper and binder with cigars in total?

Here's an old link that eludes to it.

This guy might remember.

 

[N2Advnture]

I thought it was for ELs, REs, Reservas as well but it would definitely explain the virtually zero "sick periods" on fresh cigars starting in late 05.

Thanks for the head's up (I've been slack on info since starting Cigarmony & having the baby :laugh: )

I'll try to get confirmation.

~Mark

 

[N2Advnture]

Getting more clarification but my "HSA source" says:

The official line is that TABACUBA has always used appropriately aged leaf and that no “stockpiling” has ever taken place.

My information is that it [getting clarification on "it" but assume it means stockpiling/aging] commenced in 2003 and hence the improvements in 05 and the benchmark 2006 year. It is the aim that all premium standard production cigars will use appropriately aged leaf. From what I have tasted and have seen they pretty much have achieved that.

I hope this helps

~Mark