Emodx asked me, via email, to put together some thoughts that originated out of a
couple of posts I made in the Workingman’s Trade thread and post in the Lobby.
Some background: I am, I guess, a fog of FOGS. I’ve smoked cigars regularly since 1963. Before that I’d have an occasional Havana with my father, who spent most of his waking hours with a Cuban cigar in his hand. In fact, in late December, 1958, my father, anticipating the fall of the Batista government, went to Cuba to buy a stockpile of cigars for his personal use. My father was certain that Castro’s agricultural policy would place little importance on tobacco growing, and would convert the fields to the growing of food crops. The thought of not having his Havanas sent a chill coursing through my father’s veins. On January 1, 1959, the day Castro took Havana, my father was boarding a plane, departing the Havana airport. His personal luggage and hold baggage were filled with nothing but cigars. Because the embargo didn’t begin for two more years, my father continued to buy his normal two boxes of Havanas per week at his favorite tobacconist.
The cigars he’d purchased in Havana remained in a rented cigar locker until he died in 1965. I inherited the Havana purchase, but sold it off to cover debts my father left when he died suddenly. I certainly wish I’d held onto a box or two, for sentimental reasons.
I wrote in one of the posts on the Workingman’s Trade thread about the importance of equal for equal...whether in trading or box passes.
Several years ago, when cigar bulletin boards were still list-serves, and pretty small in number, I responded to a trade offer. A fellow was looking to try a few new cigars of a particular brand. I responded, saying that I was happy to engage in the trade, and that the other trader should send me whatever he felt was equitable, but to be “modest.” When the package from him arrived, the cigars and quantity he sent were totally appropriate for the deal. But, I was troubled. In the box was a note that said, “Steve, thanks for the trade. I hope I sent enough. If I didn’t, please let me know and I’ll send more.” I phoned him to tell him that I was very pleased with what he had sent and asked about the note. The gist of what he said on the phone was that he’d been involved in a few trades and read quite a few posts about trades and traders, and that it appeared to him that traders who gave numerous extras were the people everyone wanted to trade with. I replied that I felt that was an unfortunate and negative trend that was appearing among new cigar smokers. Not wanting to be thought of as cheap or inconsiderate, they went far beyond the paramenters of the trade to seemingly protect their integrity. I explained that many old timers (FOGS) no longer actively traded with anyone other than FOGS because of this trend. They wanted to trade equitably, as they would in their businesses, and, if there were to be a gift, it would be clear that it was a gift. It is my hope that the fine people who are members of Cigar Pass will take this to heart. For most people, being on the end of a trade, where you have been humbled by the person you have traded with, is a very negative feeling. And if you have sent far beyond what was called for, and the other trader isn’t playing the oneup game, you feel as though you have been cheated...and it is not justified!
When you trade, be clear on what the trade comprises, and if there are extras involved, as an inducement to make the trade, don’t expect that the person you’re trading with should send extras too. If you want to add an additional 5-stick blinder with your trading partner, set it up in advance.
Box passes: My best cigar friend, Harold, died nine years ago this month. Pre internet he was the king of the boxpass. He smoked the best cigars, but rarely ever bought a cigar. Only when he was a few weeks from death did he tell me his method. Harold had the boxpass down to an art. Over many years, he’d cultivated scores of friends in the cigar world. He wrote well and was very knowledgeable and generous with information. He started ten boxpasses a year, each boxpass with ten different people. He’d begin a pass with 30 cigars; a couple super premiums, some premiums, several Cubans, and the rest, quality, branded and boxed, well known cigars. He’d learned that the newer a guy was, the less he’d take and the more he’d put, plus he knew there would always be a host bag. By Harold’s calculations and history, a pass that started with 30 sticks would bring home at least fifty and maybe sixty cigars; and that typically the host bag would have more Super premiums, premiums, and Cubans than the pass began with. When a pass returned to him, he had the material for the next pass and enough cigars for his daily after dinner smoke. Frankly, I thought my friend’s behavior was unconscionable. After all, he was a wealthy man who could easily afford to smoke anything he wanted. He thought it was humorous and a game.
He actually had a waiting list of guys trying to get into his boxpasses.
If there’s a lesson to be learned from my late friend, it’s the same as in trading: equal for equal is the best policy.
If you take five $6.00 cigars, put in five $6.00 cigars; not six, seven, or eight. If
you take five $6.00 cigars, don’t put in thirty $1.00 bundled sticks, even if the totals are both $30.00. Equal quality out=Equal quality in.
If you want to send the host a gift, send it to him. It shouldn’t have to travel with the pass. Do you really want a gifted PSD4 or Opus to travel for a month or longer in the mail? A boxpass should return to the originator with the same number of cigars with which it left him + the host bag, if there is one.
If there’s one thing I sincerely hope I get across in this overly lengthy post is that EQUAL is the best method in trading and passing. Don’t ever be intimidated by the post “Joe Schmoe is a great trader/passer. He took two Connies and put in one PAM, one Opus, and a new 1916.” That’s not the way passes and trades were meant to be. Boxpasses and trading are for developing friendships and gaining knowledge about our cigar hobby. There will always be a few people who get carried away in the spirit of brotherhood, and it’s the responsibility of others to calm the fires.
When the time comes that you want to send someone a gift, by all means, do it, but remember that if you have an expectation of return, it's not a gift at all.
My thanks to Emodx for the invitation to share my thoughts.
Steve*R
couple of posts I made in the Workingman’s Trade thread and post in the Lobby.
Some background: I am, I guess, a fog of FOGS. I’ve smoked cigars regularly since 1963. Before that I’d have an occasional Havana with my father, who spent most of his waking hours with a Cuban cigar in his hand. In fact, in late December, 1958, my father, anticipating the fall of the Batista government, went to Cuba to buy a stockpile of cigars for his personal use. My father was certain that Castro’s agricultural policy would place little importance on tobacco growing, and would convert the fields to the growing of food crops. The thought of not having his Havanas sent a chill coursing through my father’s veins. On January 1, 1959, the day Castro took Havana, my father was boarding a plane, departing the Havana airport. His personal luggage and hold baggage were filled with nothing but cigars. Because the embargo didn’t begin for two more years, my father continued to buy his normal two boxes of Havanas per week at his favorite tobacconist.
The cigars he’d purchased in Havana remained in a rented cigar locker until he died in 1965. I inherited the Havana purchase, but sold it off to cover debts my father left when he died suddenly. I certainly wish I’d held onto a box or two, for sentimental reasons.
I wrote in one of the posts on the Workingman’s Trade thread about the importance of equal for equal...whether in trading or box passes.
Several years ago, when cigar bulletin boards were still list-serves, and pretty small in number, I responded to a trade offer. A fellow was looking to try a few new cigars of a particular brand. I responded, saying that I was happy to engage in the trade, and that the other trader should send me whatever he felt was equitable, but to be “modest.” When the package from him arrived, the cigars and quantity he sent were totally appropriate for the deal. But, I was troubled. In the box was a note that said, “Steve, thanks for the trade. I hope I sent enough. If I didn’t, please let me know and I’ll send more.” I phoned him to tell him that I was very pleased with what he had sent and asked about the note. The gist of what he said on the phone was that he’d been involved in a few trades and read quite a few posts about trades and traders, and that it appeared to him that traders who gave numerous extras were the people everyone wanted to trade with. I replied that I felt that was an unfortunate and negative trend that was appearing among new cigar smokers. Not wanting to be thought of as cheap or inconsiderate, they went far beyond the paramenters of the trade to seemingly protect their integrity. I explained that many old timers (FOGS) no longer actively traded with anyone other than FOGS because of this trend. They wanted to trade equitably, as they would in their businesses, and, if there were to be a gift, it would be clear that it was a gift. It is my hope that the fine people who are members of Cigar Pass will take this to heart. For most people, being on the end of a trade, where you have been humbled by the person you have traded with, is a very negative feeling. And if you have sent far beyond what was called for, and the other trader isn’t playing the oneup game, you feel as though you have been cheated...and it is not justified!
When you trade, be clear on what the trade comprises, and if there are extras involved, as an inducement to make the trade, don’t expect that the person you’re trading with should send extras too. If you want to add an additional 5-stick blinder with your trading partner, set it up in advance.
Box passes: My best cigar friend, Harold, died nine years ago this month. Pre internet he was the king of the boxpass. He smoked the best cigars, but rarely ever bought a cigar. Only when he was a few weeks from death did he tell me his method. Harold had the boxpass down to an art. Over many years, he’d cultivated scores of friends in the cigar world. He wrote well and was very knowledgeable and generous with information. He started ten boxpasses a year, each boxpass with ten different people. He’d begin a pass with 30 cigars; a couple super premiums, some premiums, several Cubans, and the rest, quality, branded and boxed, well known cigars. He’d learned that the newer a guy was, the less he’d take and the more he’d put, plus he knew there would always be a host bag. By Harold’s calculations and history, a pass that started with 30 sticks would bring home at least fifty and maybe sixty cigars; and that typically the host bag would have more Super premiums, premiums, and Cubans than the pass began with. When a pass returned to him, he had the material for the next pass and enough cigars for his daily after dinner smoke. Frankly, I thought my friend’s behavior was unconscionable. After all, he was a wealthy man who could easily afford to smoke anything he wanted. He thought it was humorous and a game.
He actually had a waiting list of guys trying to get into his boxpasses.
If there’s a lesson to be learned from my late friend, it’s the same as in trading: equal for equal is the best policy.
If you take five $6.00 cigars, put in five $6.00 cigars; not six, seven, or eight. If
you take five $6.00 cigars, don’t put in thirty $1.00 bundled sticks, even if the totals are both $30.00. Equal quality out=Equal quality in.
If you want to send the host a gift, send it to him. It shouldn’t have to travel with the pass. Do you really want a gifted PSD4 or Opus to travel for a month or longer in the mail? A boxpass should return to the originator with the same number of cigars with which it left him + the host bag, if there is one.
If there’s one thing I sincerely hope I get across in this overly lengthy post is that EQUAL is the best method in trading and passing. Don’t ever be intimidated by the post “Joe Schmoe is a great trader/passer. He took two Connies and put in one PAM, one Opus, and a new 1916.” That’s not the way passes and trades were meant to be. Boxpasses and trading are for developing friendships and gaining knowledge about our cigar hobby. There will always be a few people who get carried away in the spirit of brotherhood, and it’s the responsibility of others to calm the fires.
When the time comes that you want to send someone a gift, by all means, do it, but remember that if you have an expectation of return, it's not a gift at all.
My thanks to Emodx for the invitation to share my thoughts.
Steve*R
