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65% beads and still at 70RH

Eins

New Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2004
Messages
254
Two days ago I received a pound of 65% beads from Heartfelt Industries. I didn't waste any time and put more than enough in their new home inside my two desktop humis. I know the beads are dry (they are milky white) but since I put them in, the humidity has even gone up a notch and is now at 70RH in one and 72 in the other humi.

I recently calibrated both hygrometers with the 6+ hours salt test (75%) and am confident that they are showing correct levels.

How long does it take for a humi to adjust? Both of them are less than half full :(
 
Color on the beads can be deceptive, but usually after two days, a small humi will stabilize, unless the beads maxed out one direction or the other.
 
What is the RH in the house and if it is high how often are you opening your humidor to check the humidity, I know its hard but the less often you open your humidor the better off you will be, you need to let the beads work.

Randy :D
 
One of my humis has an external hygrometer, so I don't have to open it to see, and I don't. Still not coming down.

Not really a big desaster, 70% ain't damaging at all, just not where I expected it to go.

BTW, most of the beads were white, a few were glassy. Not sure how that could be, shouldn't they all be the same?
 
You really cant depend on the color, some of the beads will change, some won't. I'm not sure how it works, but I think there are at least two types if not three in the mix.
 
Several things to consider but most likely you really want to see instant results and it doesn't work that way.

One thing to consider is that you may have been shipped beads calibrated to 70%. I would take a small amount and put them in a controlled enviroment with a hygrometer and leave it alone for a few days. If It still reads in the 70's I'd take the beads you used for the test and dry them out in the oven for 30 minutes on low heat and then repeat the test.
 
Allofus123 said:
One thing to consider is that you may have been shipped beads calibrated to 70%.
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My source only has 65% beads, no 70% ones. But he is mailing me a test kit to more precisely calibrate my hygrometers. Both are calibrated with the salt test and he said that may not be precise.

We'll see. Thanks for your continued help.
 
Eins said:
But he is mailing me a test kit to more precisely calibrate my hygrometers. Both are calibrated with the salt test and he said that may not be precise.
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Did your test kit cost you any $ ? I'm curious as to what their testing kit consist of. If you don't mind let us know when you get it. I'm not sure why this guy would say its not precise but he's wrong. The only way the salt test would not be precise is if you didn't do it correctly. Damp salt in a solid state produces an enviroment of 75% humidity and thats an exact science. The excert below was copied from ICG. The first few paragraphs explains the science if you're into that. Continue reading to get to the "How to" do the test.

The following is a brief explanation of the chemistry, originally posted to asc by Peter Shenkin of Columbia University. Don't worry too much about the technical details - the point is that plain salt will, when used properly will maintain an exact 75% humidity in a sealed environment.

A saturated solution at constant temperature & pressure has a fixed composition. [[ Explanation in terms of the Gibbs Phase Rule omitted. ]] Therefore, such a solution has a fixed vapor pressure. Thus, at constant temperature, no matter how much solid NaCl and how much water are present, the concentration of the NaCl in the water is fixed, just as long as both the solution and the solid phase are present. Therefore such a solution has a fixed vapor pressure.

Now, it just happens to turn out that the vapor pressure of a saturated solution of NaCl in H20 is about 75% of the vapor pressure of pure water at any temperature close to room temperature. This means that at equilibrium, if there were nothing present except this solution and a vapor phase in contact with it (no air), the pressure above the solution would be about 15 mm_Hg, in round numbers, using 20 mm_Hg as the vapor pressure of water near room temperature, again in round numbers. As mentioned earlier, the only gas providing the pressure above the solution would be water vapor. We'll see in a few minutes that the same thing happens even when air is introduced.

Now to procedures. You'll need a zip-lock baggie or other see-through container, about a teaspoon of salt, and a small, shallow open container for that salt (I use the screw cap from a bottle of milk) Gee, I love this high-tech lab gear.... ;-)

Place a teaspoon or so of salt in its container and add a few drops of water to get it wet. You don't want to dissolve it, just get a good damp pile of salt in your bottle cap. This is important! Just a few drops! you want damp salt, NOT a solution. As the technical explanation above says, you want the salt present in a wet solid phase. Place it in the baggie, along with your hygrometer. CAUTION - DON'T SPILL ANY SALT ON YOUR INSTRUMENT! Be sure the Hygrometer isn't in its "min" or "max" mode, BTW.

Seal the baggie with some air trapped inside (so it's not tight against the hygrometer) and let it sit. Allow this to stabilize for at least 6 hours. (don't rush it!). After the internal "system" has stabilized, check your reading WITHOUT OPENING THE BAGGIE. It should be exactly 75%. If not, note the deviation - this is how much your hygrometer is out. Don't be surprised if your reading up to 5 points out - unfortunately, that's the factory tolerance of this instrument.

Note that several readers have had occasional problems with poorly sealing baggies. Use a small tupperware container, or double-bag your experimental setup will help avoid inaccuracies.
 
Thank you Allofus123, that's exactly how I did the test.

But first, let me correct something. David did not say that the salt test is not precise, he said he "is not comfortable with the salt test". Then he said he will send me this test kit (free of charge) and it contains an agent that will produce (I guess a more reliable?) humidity to calibrate the hygro.

I've seen a kit with similar claims offered on Vern's website.

Further to your detailed process description, I want to add some ideas on how to finish the procedure successfully. When I checked the deviation before opening the zip lock, I knew the deviation. But when I took out the hygro and wanted to adjust it, I had some problems with getting the screwdriver into the screw, keeping it in there, turning it and watching the needle move, all the while the room humidity made the hygro move down in RH. That screwed up the calibration. My learning and suggestion on how to proceed after checking the deviation is therefore this:

After writing down the deviation, take the hygrometer out of the zip lock bag and expose it to room humidity. Leave it sitting there until, during a time span of 5 minutes, the needdle does not move more than 1/2 %. Now you have time and can be patient to adjust the inner mechanism to add/subtract the deviation from the new actual reading. That's it.

I'll make a separate post after I received and used the test kit. I will describe the procedure and my findings as to any deviations in results from the salt test. That will be the interesting part.
 
My first suggestion would be to get rid of the analog hygrometer and pick up a digital for $15.

In my experience with the salt test I had varying results using a ziplock freezer bag and even a tupperware container. The only way I got consistant results was using a jar.

If the beads are too wet, use a hairdryer on low for a few minutes to dry them out a bit.
 
Last night I was at the local Radio Shack. No hygrometer to be found other than a wireless remote set for $50. Maybe at another Shack?

Soon, my official test kit will be here and then I'll know for sure. Knowing how mechanical hygrometers work, I trust them within a small range, once they are properly calibrated. And a small range is all they will be used in.

I just like an analog gauge more than a digital. A coolerdor and a digital--okay. But a nice ebony wood desktop? Over my dead body!

This what mine looks like.
 
Very sound advice from threei. You're on your own with an anolog. IMO they're not worth a nickle. I'm betting the kit you're sent contains some kind of humidity pak like those they enclose in Fuente boxes or the Humi bags.

threei - I agree with you on doing the salt test in a jar. Most plastic bags are permeable. Two other key points is to only dampen the salt. You want it still in a solid state but wet. The last thing..... leave it alone. I recommend overnight...10-12 hours.
 
Just wondered if you got your Humidipack yet.

Eins stated what I told him correctly. The salt test although accurate under perfect conditions is open to many possible inaccuracies. What I have found is most people put too mauch water in the salt. You must only dampen the salt not make it too wet or dissolve it.

What I sent him is a 69% RH Humidipak. Place the Humidipack in a glass jar and allow it ot sit for at least 24 hours. Analog hygrometers are slow in reacting and are inherently innaccurate.
 
Target had some wireless ones on clearance last week for $20, made by Oregon scientific.

Most radio shacks carry the $20 hygro, I think their website lets you check inventory of nearby stores.

-MAtt-
 
The Humidipack came in the mail today. I'll put my hygros in a jar tonight and see what happens. I'll make a post in a day or so.

Thanks Viper for shipping it free and even unrequested. I can only recommend your service.
 
Are these humidity beads rechargeable? From reading the instruction page, it seemed like all you had to do was add some distilled water and your good to go. I want something as low maintenance as possible.
 
hex1848 said:
Are these humidity beads rechargeable? From reading the instruction page, it seemed like all you had to do was add some distilled water and your good to go. I want something as low maintenance as possible.
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Hex1848, you found what you want. Beads are as low maintenance as anything comes. To 'recharge' them means to add destilled water (not too much!) and that's it.

My issue is obviously with my hygrometers and I am currently calibrating them (again) with a more reliable medium. I can already tell that both hygros are showing at least 3% too high, after only 11 hours (test duration is 24 hours). So there is my answer to my own question: The Beads work.
 
I use a small misting spray bottle filled with distilled H2O to "recharge" the beads as needed. I find it to be an effective method to distribute a finer quantity of water over a larger surface area of beads.
 
Double bag that humi pack and keep it in a cool spot. It will last for a long time and you can check whatever hygro you get at a later date.
 
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