2007 Summer Cigar Draft Numero Dos

[insight]

2007 Summer Cigar Draft - Numero Dos

Welcome to the 2007 Summer CIgar Draft! The Numero Dos Draft will include the following:

List of participants (not in order)

1. Jonesy DONE
2. Keystone_Raider DONE
3. Opus MeX DONE
4. mmburtch DONE
5. wanlail DONE
6. Putz Mulligan
7. jfields DONE
8. Ginseng DONE
9. Gator DONE
10. Rob300c DONE
11. Vin# DONE
12. TheOrangeMan DONE

UPDATE 6/24/07: Please post your intended puts here, these puts are subject for approval. Please speak up if you disapprove of someones puts. If you approve simply state nothing. (This will help keep the chatter down).

*** Mark Twain has upped the ante a bit and offered a challenge to whoever's "Puts" are picked first from the Dos Draft (not counting mystery stick) wins a nice cigar. See http://www.cigarpass.com/forums/index.php?...st&p=508374

Not to be outdone I have offered the same challenge to the Uno draft! Lets see who gets there first!

*** Wilkey has challenged the two Drafts Uno & Dos to whoever finishes first with ALL the picks, each will win a cigar. See http://www.cigarpass.com/forums/index.php?...st&p=508408

***Also please PM me an email address where you can actually be reached if the one in your profile is one you don't regularly check. I want to make sure I can reach people if their turn comes up and they seem to be MIA.

UPDATE 6/26/07: Here is the initial lineup of sticks arranged by who put them. The list will be finalized and an alphabetical numbered list will be put in place once we have the last of the puts submitted.

theorangeman

Fuente Hemingway Untold Story Maduro (Dec '05)
Fuente Opus X No. 5 (Dec '06)
Tatuaje Regios (Apr '06)
Padilla Miami Torpedo (Nov '06)
Saint Luis Rey A (Apr '03)

Jonesy

FFOX Perfecxion#4
Cohiba SIG II (AEP JUL 06)
LFD DL Chisel
Zino Platinum Grand Master
Zino Platinum Low Rider

jfields

FFOX Fuente Fuente
GOF Double Robusto 2005
Monte #2 (PUT Feb 06)
Diamond Crown Maximus Standford's 90th
Cohiba Robusto (LME Jul 05)

mmburtch

Coranado by La Flor Corona Gorda
Anejo 50 Christmas '06
PAM Corona '06
FFOX Robusto Christmas '06
Cohiba Sig III Dec '05

rob300c

Diplomaticos no. 4 October 2006
Bolivar PC SLB January 2006
El Rey De Mundo Choix Supreme September 2005
Punch Super Robusto 2006
A. Fuente 77 "Shark"

Keystone Raider

Ashton ESG Robusto
DC Maximus #4
Don Carlos Belicoso
Rocky Patel Vintage 90 Torpedo
Graycliff Expresso PG

wanlail

Opus X Fuente Fuente
Cuvee Grand Lancero
Outlaw BTTB Pepin Salomone
DCM #1 Double Corona
Ramon y Ramon Tribute

Ginseng

Padron Serie 1926 No. 9, natural
Arturo Fuente Añejo Reserva Xtra Viejo No. 49
Hoyo de Monterrey Churchill, 2005
Cohiba Pirámides 2006 EL, ROA OCT06
Montecristo Petit Edmundo, TBS OCT06

Opus meX

Fuente Fuente Opus X Robusto
Padilla Miami 8/11 Torpedo
Don Pepin Black Label Cuban Classic 1970 Belicoso
Padron 1964 Aniversario Imperial Maduro
Ashton VSG Wizard

vin#

Por Larrañaga Petit Coronas 07
Hoyo De Monterrey Epicure No. 1 05
Punch Black Prince 00
La Flor Dominicana Double Ligero Oscuro Natural Lancero
Litto Gomez Small Batch No. 1

Gator

Anejo Shark (05 i think)
Lito Gomez Small Batch #1
Forbidden X Lancero
Trinidad Robusto Exta (03 or 04)
Don Carlos Edicion de Aniversario Robusto

Putz Mulligan

Hoyo De Monterrey Petite Robusto
Partagas Series D No. 4
Don pepin Blue Label Invictos
AF Gran Reserva Don Carlos #2
Tatuaje Havana VI Nobles (Robusto)

Sticks alphabetically ordered and numbered (when you make your picks you will reference these numbers unless picking your mystery stick. E.g., "For my 2nd pick I choose 5. Ashton VSG Wizard." OR "For my 2nd pick I choose the mystery stick OMGBBQDONUTS!"

1. AF Gran Reserva Don Carlos #2 Rob300c
2. Anejo 50 Christmas '06 Keystone raider
3. Anejo Shark (05 i think) Jfields
4. Arturo Fuente Añejo Reserva Xtra Viejo No. 49 T36
5. Ashton ESG Robusto Gator
6. Ashton VSG Wizard Keystone_raider
7. Bolivar PC SLB January 2006 Wanlail
8. Cohiba Pirámides 2006 EL, ROA OCT06 Gator
9. Cohiba Robusto (LME Jul 05) theorangeman
10. Cohiba SIG II (AEP JUL 06) Rob300c
11. Cohiba Sig III Dec '05 Wanlail
12. Coranado by La Flor Corona Gorda Rob300c
13. Cuvee Grand Lancero Wanlail
14. DC Maximus #4 theorangeman
15. DCM #1 Double Corona theorangeman
16. Diamond Crown Maximus Standford's 90th Wanlail
17. Diplomaticos no. 4 October 2006 Ginseng
18. Don Carlos Belicoso Vin#
19. Don Carlos Edicion de Aniversario Robusto Ginseng
20. Don Pepin Black Label Cuban Classic 1970 Belicoso Putz
21. Don pepin Blue Label Invictos Gator
22. El Rey De Mundo Choix Supreme September 2005 Gator
23. FFOX Fuente Fuente theorangeman
24. FFOX Perfecxion#4 Jfields
25. FFOX Robusto Christmas '06 Vin#
26. Forbidden X Lancero Jonesy
27. Fuente 77 "Shark" Jfields
28. Fuente Fuente Opus X Robusto vin#
29. Fuente Hemingway Untold Story Maduro (Dec '05) T36
30. Fuente Opus X No. 5 (Dec '06) vin#
31. GOF Double Robusto 2005 Opusmex
32. Graycliff Expresso PG Putz Mulligan
33. Hoyo de Monterrey Churchill, 2005 Keystone_raider
34. Hoyo De Monterrey Epicure No. 1 05 Jonesy
35. Hoyo De Monterrey Petite Robusto Jonesy
36. La Flor Dominicana Double Ligero Oscuro Natural Lancero Wanlail
37. LFD DL Chisel T36
38. Lito Gomez Small Batch #1 OpusMex
39. Litto Gomez Small Batch No. 1 Wilkey
40. Monte #2 (PUT Feb 06) T36
41. Montecristo Petit Edmundo, TBS OCT06 Putz
42. Opus X Fuente Fuente Putz
43. Outlaw BTTB Pepin Salomone T36
44. Padilla Miami 8/11 Torpedo Ginseng
45. Padilla Miami Torpedo (Nov '06) Keystone raider
46. Padron 1964 Aniversario Imperial Maduro OpusMex
47. Padron Serie 1926 No. 9, natural Jonesy
48. PAM Corona '06 Jonesy
49. Partagas Series D No. 4 theorangeman
50. Por Larrañaga Petit Coronas 07 OpusMex
51. Punch Black Prince 00 Jfields
52. Punch Super Robusto 2006 Vin#
53. Ramon y Ramon Tribute Ginseng
54. Rocky Patel Vintage 90 Torpedo Opusmex
55. Saint Luis Rey A (Apr '03) Jfields
56. Tatuaje Havana VI Nobles (Robusto) Gator
57. Tatuaje Regios (Apr '06) Rob300c
58. Trinidad Robusto Exta (03 or 04) Rob300c Didn't make a deal for unknown stick
59. Zino Platinum Grand Master Keystone raider Made a deal for SLR A
60. Zino Platinum Low Rider Putz

***UPDATE 7/3 Here are a few suggestions I have for you guys to help get ready for next week.

1) Set up a preference list, ranking all the available sticks in the order you want them. This way if something you want gets picked you already know what to take instead. This will greatly facilitate the speed and efficiency of the draft.

2) This might move faster than you expect, so if you think you might not be around when your next pick comes up email/pm the guy ahead of you and behind you with your next few top choices so the draft can go on. E.g., I might not be available Friday at 2 pm so I email Tim and Wilkey my top 5 choices in order out of what is available and they post whatever my next pick would be.

3) The lets make a deal slots shouldn't hold up the drafting process. Since the stick you choose is out of the pass, whether you keep it or swap for the LMD stick, there is no need to stress about this. The reason I am clarifying this is because it is possible Tim or I might not be around when someone with an LMD slot makes their pick, so they might not know they have the option till later. Ultimately this doesn't affect the draft because neither stick would be re-entering circulation but it is still worth mentioning here for clarity.

4) You can make you blind cigar pick with any one of your slots. Again you may not find out exactly what you got till a little later if the draft masters aren't around for a few minutes but you will find out eventually!

5) Have fun with this and don't stress! It is going to be a blast!

*** UPDATE 7/9: The pass order is in! The unbiased selection process has produced the following order for the draft:

Pass order and picks!

1. Jonesy
Mystery Stick: AF King B
Forbidden X Lancero
Hoyo De Monterrey Epicure No. 1 05
Hoyo De Monterrey Petite Robusto
Padron Serie 1926 No. 9, natural
PAM Corona '06

2. Ginseng
Mystery Stick: Trinidad Fundadores
Diplomaticos no. 4 October 2006
Don Carlos Edicion de Aniversario Robusto
(#44) Padilla Miami 8/11 Torpedo
Ramon y Ramon Tribute
(#39) Litto Gomez Small Batch No. 1

3. Opus Mex
Mystery Stick: RP Sungrown Toro
GOF Double Robusto 2005
(#38) LG Small Batch
Padron 1964 Aniversario Imperial Maduro
Por Larrañaga Petit Coronas 07
Rocky Patel Vintage 90 Torpedo

4. Gator
Mystery Stick: AF Opus X Perfecion X
Ashton ESG Robusto
Don pepin Blue Label Invictos
El Rey De Mundo Choix Supreme September 2005
Tatuaje Havana VI Nobles (Robusto)
Cohiba Pirámides 2006 EL, ROA OCT06

5. Jfields
Mystery Stick: Cohiba Robusto
(#3)Anejo Shark (05 i think)
(#24) FFOX Perfecxion#4
(#27) Fuente 77 "Shark"
Punch Black Prince 00
Saint Luis Rey A (Apr '03)

6. Rob300c
Mystery Stick: RASS
(#1) AF Gran Reserva Don Carlos #2
Cohiba SIG II (AEP JUL 06)
Coranado by La Flor Corona Gorda
Tatuaje Regios (Apr '06)
Trinidad Robusto Exta (03 or 04)

7. TheOrangeman
Mystery Stick: AF 858 Candela
Cohiba Robusto (LME Jul 05)
DC Maximus #4
DCM #1 Double Corona
(#23) FFOX Fuente Fuente
Partagas Series D No. 4

8. Vin#
Mystery Stick: Padron 1926 #2
Don Carlos Belicoso
(#25) FFOX Robusto Christmas '06
(#28) Fuente Fuente Opus X Robusto
Fuente Opus X No. 5 (Dec '06)
Punch Super Robusto 2006

9. Putz Mulligan
Mystery Stick: Cuaba Divinos
Don Pepin Black Label Cuban Classic 1970 Belicoso
Graycliff Expresso PG
Montecristo Petit Edmundo, TBS OCT06
Zino Platinum Low Rider
(#42) Opus X Fuente Fuente

10. Wanlail
Mystery Stick: LFD DL600
Cuvee Grand Lancero
Diamond Crown Maximus Standford's 90th
La Flor Dominicana Double Ligero Oscuro Natural Lancero
Bolivar PC SLB January 2006
Cohiba Sig III Dec '05

11. Keystone Raider
Mystery Stick: Padilla Miami Churchhill
Anejo 50 Christmas '06
Hoyo de Monterrey Churchill, 2005
(#45) Padilla Miami Torpedo (Nov '06)
Ashton VSG Wizard
Zino Platinum Grand Master Made a deal for SLR A

12. Tomthirtysix
Mystery Stick: Anejo 46
Arturo Fuente Añejo Reserva Xtra Viejo No. 49
Fuente Hemingway Untold Story Maduro (Dec '05)
LFD DL Chisel
Monte #2 (PUT Feb 06)
Outlaw BTTB Pepin Salomone



*** Thanks everyone for a great draft, it was an honor to host! Next year lets try to beat Uno!

 

[theorangeman]

That all sounds good to me. Therefore, here are my proposed puts:

1. Fuente Hemingway Untold Story Maduro (Dec '05)
2. Fuente Opus X No. 5 (Dec '06)
3. Tatuaje Regios (Apr '06)
4. Padilla Miami Torpedo (Nov '06)
5. Saint Luis Rey A (Apr '03)

*Plus, of course, a mystery stick!

 

[Jonesy]

1) FFOX Perfecxion#4
2) Cohiba SIG II (AEP JUL 06)
3) LFD DL Chisel
4) Zino Platinum Grand Master
5) Zino Platinum Low Rider

?? Mystery stick ??

 

[jfields]

1) FFOX Fuente Fuente
2)GOF Double Robusto 2005
3) Monte #2 (PUT Feb 06)
4) Diamond Crown Maximus Standford's 90th
5) Cohiba Robusto (LME Jul 05)


+ Mystery Stick :whistling:

 

[mmburtch]

Coranado by La Flor Corona Gorda
Anejo 50 Christmas '06
PAM Corona '06
FFOX Robusto Christmas '06
Cohiba Sig III Dec '05

And of course, one more....

 

[Jonesy]

1) FFOX
2)GOF Double Robusto 2005
3) Monte #2 (PUT Feb 06)
4) Diamond Crown Maximus Standford's 90th
5) Cohiba Robusto (LME Jul 05)


+ Mystery Stick :whistling:

Damn John, you must be wantin that Lusi! :laugh:

 

[theorangeman]

I understand that we want to keep the "chatter" down, but it's hard not to comment after looking at the list of smokes that have been proposed so far - VERY nice selection, boys! This is going to be a lot of fun!

 

[mmburtch]

1) FFOX Fuente Fuente
2)GOF Double Robusto 2005
3) Monte #2 (PUT Feb 06)
4) Diamond Crown Maximus Standford's 90th
5) Cohiba Robusto (LME Jul 05)


+ Mystery Stick :whistling:

Those are some great sticks John. I am a bit concerned that a couple of them fall way outside the "$5-10 give or take a little" range. My concern is that others might feel obligated to match, or that you will end up trading a super premium for a standard issue cigar. I think there are a fair number of us in this bracket that can play at that level, but there are likely some that can't. In the end the choice is yours and the rest of us will make our choices as well. I just don't want to see this get out of hand and result in hurt feelings or diminished friendships. That's just my opinion, and I will follow the groups lead on this one.

Now, the mystery stick...That's a different story. :whistling:

 

[insight]

I agree that John's sticks are superb and a couple in particular are high, but the price range we have set is just a ballpark guideline. If a player wants to put high that is their choice, but there should just be no expectation others will do the same. John you are welcome to reconsider your puts if you like (or not). I wouldn't be overly concerned about it because the way people are putting so far, NOBODY is going to get the short end of the stick. If anyone has any thoughts on concerns please let us know here so we can deal with it early on.

 

[rob300c]

1) Diplomaticos no. 4 October 2006
2) Bolivar PC SLB January 2006
3) El Rey De Mundo Choix Supreme September 2005
4) Punch Super Robusto 2006
5) A. Fuente 77 "Shark"

*mystery stick*

Factory codes provided upon request.

Regarding John's suggestions...
No problem! :thumbs:
Just exhibits the generosity of our members!

-Rob

 

[jfields]

1) FFOX Fuente Fuente
2)GOF Double Robusto 2005
3) Monte #2 (PUT Feb 06)
4) Diamond Crown Maximus Standford's 90th
5) Cohiba Robusto (LME Jul 05)


+ Mystery Stick :whistling:

Those are some great sticks John. I am a bit concerned that a couple of them fall way outside the "$5-10 give or take a little" range. My concern is that others might feel obligated to match, or that you will end up trading a super premium for a standard issue cigar. I think there are a fair number of us in this bracket that can play at that level, but there are likely some that can't. In the end the choice is yours and the rest of us will make our choices as well. I just don't want to see this get out of hand and result in hurt feelings or diminished friendships. That's just my opinion, and I will follow the groups lead on this one.

Now, the mystery stick...That's a different story. :whistling:

Thanks Matt for pointing that out in a constructive manner. While I had read the $5-10 range rule previously, I forgot about this when I made my picks.
Yes, admittedly was trying to impress/go first in the draft but, I do want to play fair.

Edited to say: I will revise my puts and re-post in a little while.
Edited once again: To ask the Draft Master his opinion on "Should I leave it or, change?" I want to make sure that I do not cause hurt feelings as pointed out.

 

[insight]

I just talked with John and he has decided he wants his puts to remain as they are. Nobody needs to get their feelings hurt on this one, John wants to put generously and wants others to enjoy these smokes (they don't suck!). On with the show!

 

[Keystone_Raider]

O.K. guys look it over and LMK if it flys or if I need to change something. I'm still wet behind the ears here so LMK!

1- Ashton ESG Robusto
2- DC Maximus #4
3- Don Carlos Belicoso
4- Rocky Patel Vintage 90 Torpedo
5- Graycliff Expresso PG

6 - Mystery Stick.

Thanks - KR

 

[mmburtch]

I've been the victim of John's generousity. :blush: I was just checkin'.

John, thanks for taking it constructively, as it was intended. The typed word can be so easilly mis-understood.

 

[Ginseng]

1) FFOX Fuente Fuente
2)GOF Double Robusto 2005
3) Monte #2 (PUT Feb 06)
4) Diamond Crown Maximus Standford's 90th
5) Cohiba Robusto (LME Jul 05)


+ Mystery Stick :whistling:

Those are some great sticks John. I am a bit concerned that a couple of them fall way outside the "$5-10 give or take a little" range. My concern is that others might feel obligated to match, or that you will end up trading a super premium for a standard issue cigar. I think there are a fair number of us in this bracket that can play at that level, but there are likely some that can't. In the end the choice is yours and the rest of us will make our choices as well. I just don't want to see this get out of hand and result in hurt feelings or diminished friendships. That's just my opinion, and I will follow the groups lead on this one.

Now, the mystery stick...That's a different story. :whistling:

Matt,

You bring up an excellent point. I think that the issue is probably resolved in the context of this draft. Most of the guys in DOS are willing and able to stretch to the $20 range but that is beside the point, IMO. It seems to me that one cornerstone of a draft or pass is fairness or equity. In a pass, fairness comes about as a result of value matching. In a draft, it's not so clear but I think it might have something to do with the expectation of an agreed upon stick value range.

The pick order has an element of chance and that and the fact that everyone gets multiple shots at the pool serves to partially nullify value inequity. However, we'd better agree that if someone PUTs all $5.25 cigars and manages to PICK five $10-20 smokes, no one will have an issue with that.

I think that should this situation pop up again in a future pass, another viable solution might be to take a poll of the participants to see if an adjustment to the range is warranted.

Carry on.

Wilkey

 

[insight]

Wilkey brings up great points and, as I said, if anyone has a problem with the situation please voice your opinion here. My line of thinking after talking with John is that he feels fine putting more with the logical possibility of getting less in the end. I can see how it might bother other participants if someone who put less valuable sticks got to take some of the most valuable sticks but I think that unless we are going to be pretty strict about value and rarity etc. that is going to always remain a possibility to some degree. If people would like I can definitely introduce a poll to see where things stand, just let me know. I am only here to serve :thumbs:

 

[Jonesy]

Wilkey brings up great points and, as I said, if anyone has a problem with the situation please voice your opinion here. My line of thinking after talking with John is that he feels fine putting more with the logical possibility of getting less in the end. I can see how it might bother other participants if someone who put less valuable sticks got to take some of the most valuable sticks but I think that unless we are going to be pretty strict about value and rarity etc. that is going to always remain a possibility to some degree. If people would like I can definitely introduce a poll to see where things stand, just let me know. I am only here to serve :thumbs:

IMHO, I think those of us listing our puts know exactly what they retail for and also know that not everyone in the draft is going to put the same kind of cigars in that maybe someone else has. As long as the person who makes the gracious puts knows this, I don't understand the problem with it. This is something where we get to share certain smoke with guys that may not have access to or have tried yet, so if someone is being overly generous with their puts, and doesn't mind doing it (obviously not since they've been listed), I don't understand what the fuss is about. I for one know that John isn't the type of person to make his puts just to "outdo " someone else, he's a truly generous BotL as many of you already know. This should be a moot point and if someone wants to go above and beyond the normal adds, then so beit. Isn't the purpose of the draft to be able to get a cigar available to you that you may really want, or really want to try, but may not have access to? Let's stop questioning the puts unless it's a $2 yard gar. If someone wants to add a $25 dollar cigar to add to the quality of the draft, applaud the person, don't question him. JMO though.


BTW, I haven't seen a $5 cigar listed yet in this draft , it seems everyone is being quite generous with their puts.

 

[Ginseng]

Wilkey brings up great points and, as I said, if anyone has a problem with the situation please voice your opinion here. My line of thinking after talking with John is that he feels fine putting more with the logical possibility of getting less in the end. I can see how it might bother other participants if someone who put less valuable sticks got to take some of the most valuable sticks but I think that unless we are going to be pretty strict about value and rarity etc. that is going to always remain a possibility to some degree. If people would like I can definitely introduce a poll to see where things stand, just let me know. I am only here to serve :thumbs:

IMHO, I think those of us listing our puts know exactly what they retail for and also know that not everyone in the draft is going to put the same kind of cigars in that maybe someone else has. As long as the person who makes the gracious puts knows this, I don't understand the problem with it. This is something where we get to share certain smoke with guys that may not have access to or have tried yet, so if someone is being overly generous with their puts, and doesn't mind doing it (obviously not since they've been listed), I don't understand what the fuss is about. I for one know that John isn't the type of person to make his puts just to "outdo " someone else, he's a truly generous BotL as many of you already know. This should be a moot point and if someone wants to go above and beyond the normal adds, then so beit. Isn't the purpose of the draft to be able to get a cigar available to you that you may really want, or really want to try, but may not have access to? Let's stop questioning the puts unless it's a $2 yard gar. If someone wants to add a $25 dollar cigar to add to the quality of the draft, applaud the person, don't question him. JMO though.


BTW, I haven't seen a $5 cigar listed yet , it seems everyone is being quite generous with their puts.

What fuss. You see a fuss? I also don't see anyone having a "problem." What I see is a participant (Matt) raising a point worth discussing and Phil doing a helluva job moderating this draft. As for me, I can go either way on this issue so it doesn't make a whole lot of diff to me. However (and you knew that was coming), drafts and passes are events where the community explore, discuss, and debate exactly the things that are worth discussing. For example, I've learned there are basically two camps regarding value exchange. One believes that bumping up is the better course of action. The other believes that shooting for equity is the better course of action. But again, that's beside the point.

Tkoepp created this draft and in his "Rules and Guidelines" he states that "these cigars should be $5-$10 give or take a little." Now he's the man. Those are his rules. I want to play, I obey. I respect him and his choice. But I also know that he's a reasonable fellow. So if the folks in this half of the draft want to get approval to interpret that as "$5 minimum" I'm ok with that. I hope you understand where I'm coming from. I'm not picking on John and I trust that he knows that. I am saying this is an opportunity to work out this question so that the next pass will go even more smoothly than this one, and so on.

My vote is that we reinterpret the guideline as "$5 minimum" and ask Phil and Tim to bless it.

Wilkey

 

[wanlail]

1. Opus X Fuente Fuente
2. Cuvee Grand Lancero
3. Outlaw BTTB Pepin Salomone
4. DCM #1 Double Corona
5. Ramon y Ramon Tribute

Mystery Stick!

theres my puts, hopefully these are up to par.

 

[tkoepp]

OK time for my .02...

I will try to make this short and sweet, as I think this has already been settled. I stated in the original post that it should be $5-10 (with the intention of give-or-take-a-little). But as our wise professor has stated it (of which I totally agree) It might read for future reference "a minimum of $5" but IMO it must also state that the normal range is to be set as well (eg. $5-10) because the purpose of a draft is that the puts and takes are similar in terms of value, and a person reasonalby expects to take the same value as what they put.

It also must be understood, that IF someone wants to put a stick in that is higher in value, than it is assumed that it is a generous offer, and nothing else. The intention must not be to "bump"up the drafts' stick value, nor must the person expect to take a stick in the same value range.