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Calling all CP electricians!

H. Vachon

H. Vachon

King of the Hobo Hut
Joined
Aug 30, 2019
Messages
4,206
Location
Holland, MI
The breaker to my garage (yes… the one I’m not allowed to smoke in…) keeps tripping over various amounts of time. Sometimes it’s a few hours, sometimes it’s a few minutes.

I checked the wire connection to the breaker and it is tight. I have also removed the breaker to inspect for corrosion and it is clean. I have continuity, so I believe the wires from the service panel to the garage are in tact.

We have received about 6ish inches of rainfall in the last week, so I’m considering the fact that the conduit make have a leak somewhere and water is causing intermittent shorts. We do have a high water table in our area.

Other than that, I am out of leads as to how/where I should continue from here. Any suggestions or insight would be GREATLY appreciated!
 
I need to preface this with, I am not an electrician. ;)
You may be experiencing a 'ground neutral' fault; it's a guess but this can trip the breaker.
These are typically caused by a simple bad wire connection.
If you experience this particular phenomena you could also be seeing just a small bit of electrical flow to light bulbs on the same circuit where the light will actually illuminate between 1% to 4%. I know, it sounds strange but I experienced this in my house about one year ago.
Good luck.
 
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Sounds like the wire from the main panel is compromised and shorted out. I’m assuming your garage is detached and the panel in there is a sub panel?
If so you will want to take the wires off the breaker in the main and the sub. At the main panel use an ohm meter. If you have any continuity at all, then you have your answer. Shorted under ground.
A lot of people don’t use conduit when burying underground.
 
Check it during the few minutes cycle. You can actually check the resistance with the wires still connected at the main, and the wires disconnected at the sub. Again, this is assuming you are losing all power to the garage and not just one breaker, and that it is a sub.
 
Then there is the possibility I just thought of where the insulation on just one of the wires is compromised and causing the short underground due to the high level of moisture. The ohm meter thing would not work in that event. Not unless you ran a wire connected to the disconnected hot or neutral wire at the sub long enough to allow you to test for an open circuit at the appropriate wire at the main with an ohm meter.
Or, you just run a temporary wire from the main to the sub (looking like a redneck for the time being) and if the issue stops all together, you have your answer.
 
jfields said:
Sounds like the wire from the main panel is compromised and shorted out. I’m assuming your garage is detached and the panel in there is a sub panel?
If so you will want to take the wires off the breaker in the main and the sub. At the main panel use an ohm meter. If you have any continuity at all, then you have your answer. Shorted under ground.
A lot of people don’t use conduit when burying underground..
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It appears to be conduit unless the bastards just did conduit sleeves on either end. As far as ohms, I don’t get a reading. I just get the audible beep when I check for continuity. But I didn’t actually disconnect the wires from the breaker, I just checked them after turning the main off. I will disconnect them and test it again tomorrow.d Nate also called and suggested I check my connections in the light switch and outlets in the garage as they are all older than I am 😂. I post an update with tomorrow’s finding for anyone who happens to follow along. Thanks to everyone so far who has offered help! This community never ceases to amaze me!
 
That’s true too what Nate said. The more I think about it, a shorted wire underground would more than likely trip at the main panel. Just that the rain thing had me thinking about the underground wire. See if the switch or any outlets feel hot.
 
jfields said:
That’s true too what Nate said. The more I think about it, a shorted wire underground would more than likely trip at the main panel. Just that the rain thing had me thinking about the underground wire. See if the switch or any outlets feel hot.
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We also agreed that water in the conduit would most likely instantly trip the breaker instead of taking hours to do so. At least it’s a good starting theory for sure.
 
Just throwing it out there but you don’t have a GFCI breaker on the circuit in question? Those are know to have nuance trips. Also you need to know what is on the circuit, anything that could be plugged into circuit could be causing the ground fault. Also it’s not uncommon for garage, back porch, front porch to all be on same circuit…
 
TexasTraveler said:
Just throwing it out there but you don’t have a GFCI breaker on the circuit in question? Those are know to have nuance trips. Also you need to know what is on the circuit, anything that could be plugged into circuit could be causing the ground fault. Also it’s not uncommon for garage, back porch, front porch to all be on same circuit…
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The breaker is dedicated to the garage. I have unplugged the garage door opener which was the only thing that is constantly plugged into an outlet. So currently there should be no draw out there at all.

ETA: None of the outlets are GFCI in the garage. Nor are there any in the service panel
 
If it’s dedicated to only the garage you should be able to disconnect all wires at first box where it goes into garage and cap them then turn breaker on. If it doesn’t trip it’s something in the garage, if it still trips you know it’s the feed going to garage at which point you can then go to panel disconnect all wires and check them individually for ground fault.
 
I'm not an electrician, but I've burned down a couple houses....(kidding)..... 🤣

Sometimes the screws securing the wires to the breaker get loose, and / or get oxidized. Greatly increases the resistance, which increases the current, causing the problem. Seen electricians use a FLIR camera to look at panels for just that reason. If you know how do so safely, unhook the wires to the breaker, make sure they're clean, and put them back and tighten the terminals appropriately.

Sometimes, breakers just wear out when they get old. I've seen this before, seen them trip at random for no reason. Replacing the breaker solves the problem.

Be safe, and good luck - B.B.S.
 
BlindedByScience said:
I'm not an electrician, but I've burned down a couple houses....(kidding)..... 🤣

Sometimes the screws securing the wires to the breaker get loose, and / or get oxidized. Greatly increases the resistance, which increases the current, causing the problem. Seen electricians use a FLIR camera to look at panels for just that reason. If you know how do so safely, unhook the wires to the breaker, make sure they're clean, and put them back and tighten the terminals appropriately.

Sometimes, breakers just wear out when they get old. I've seen this before, seen them trip at random for no reason. Replacing the breaker solves the problem.

Be safe, and good luck - B.B.S.
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The wire is secure and clean to the breaker. But I think I’ll end up replacing the breaker regardless of what happens. It’s tripped far too many times this past week to not be worth $10-$20 to replace it. And as you said, replacing it is just another variable removed from the equation.
 
I'm not an electrician but I am an Electrical Engineer. As a basic troubleshooting technique, I would start with the simplest, least expensive, possibility and try a new breaker.....they do go bad sometimes as @Scap said. If the new breaker functions the same as the old one did, you know you have one of the other problems mentioned here.

If you can isolate the things on that breaker such as outlets and lights you may chase the problem down. Unplug, turn off everything, and if it still trips you know you have something FUBAR internal in your wiring. It's possible you have something on that circuit which is malfunctioning such as a fridge, freezer, air compressor, light fixture, multiple outlet strip, etc.?
 
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