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Bully1875...time to step up to the plate!

I would say the entire post I made above with like half a dozen links to questionable behavior hasn't been addressed yet but ybdmv.

mandrill-baboon.jpg
 
bully1875 said:
What hasn't been answered here?
I feel that I have addressed and explained myself pretty well here...
Click to expand...


My question would be do you feel that it is really fair that your end on passes and PIF's heavily favor improving your stash? Was there any thought on your part that that you were getting the better end of these? Do you feel that this could lead to the thought that you are looking to greatly improve the quality of your humidor at the expense of other CPers?
 
pembroke3355 said:
bully1875 said:
What hasn't been answered here?
I feel that I have addressed and explained myself pretty well here...
Click to expand...


My question would be do you feel that it is really fair that your end on passes and PIF's heavily favor improving your stash? Was there any thought on your part that that you were getting the better end of these? Do you feel that this could lead to the thought that you are looking to greatly improve the quality of your humidor at the expense of other CPers?
Click to expand...

Ok, I have no problem addressing these questions..

1 - My intention on the passes I hosted were to fairly allow people to put and take CC for Non CC and vice versa. This allows people to try sticks they don't normally have the chance to get there hands on. With that being said, if you look through the passes I heavily relied on the input of others to make this go as smooth as possible, however I was warned of the complications that can arise from this and went ahead with it anyway.. So as far as the passes go, I take responsibility for that. But, honestly at no time of my span of being a member here have I ever tried to take advantage of any type of trade/buy/sell/PIF. If it looks to have happened that way, I truly am sorry for that. A straight forward answer to your question is no it is not fair, and was never intentional.

2- I at no time during my passes felt like I was making out better than anyone. Who knew what sticks were to be made available by the time it got to me.. Any P/T in question had multiple conversations in regards to it and a majority of the people involved agreed on the decision.

3- I see now over the last 2 days that with all of the conversation taken place that one can see how I would try to benefit from this, however, for those of you who have taken the chance to get to know me would understand that I would NEVER try to take advantage of someone else to benefit myself, especially to a group of people who up to now have been incredibly kind to me.

I hope this answers your questions, as I have nothing to hide here.
 
insight said:
The reason why it isn't put to rest is because the question remains of why you thought it was acceptable behavior.

Looking back at your TESB pass I see this comment:
bully1875 said:
The Green Monkey said:
I understand that the pass will necessarily have to increase in overall value from start to finish--it was simply the scale (3 of 4 exchanges with an average bump of $12) that caught my eye. If everyone doubled up on 3/4 of their puts, we'd have a hairy situation.

I don't mean to seem like I'm still questioning any of this or that I'm not picking up on it--I get it--I'm simply explaining (and perhaps belaboring the point) where I was coming from initially.
Click to expand...

It's a good thing that you bring it up. I really don't want any unanswered questions. BTW I am still a newb myself. I look up to everyone else here that have done their own passes and from my previous passes I have been apart of. I have learned a great deal in my short time here at CP, and in that time I have come across some of the most generous, trustworthy and knowledgeable BOTL/SOTL I have ever incountered. With that being said the information here that Brian, Ed and everyone else has brought up truley is a valuable lesson. I knew getting into this pass that the price of each cigar would go up.. For that reason I have added lower $$ sticks and I also know that it is somewhat easy to come up with a CC that has a decent MSRP to trade for a NC with a higher MSRP thus giving people the opportunity to take sticks they normally wouldnt ever get their hands on (ie: DAGA SG)...

If there are still unanswered questions/concerns please keep them coming. Im sure I will have some help answering them from those that have already given their input..

Thanks again..
Click to expand...

I know exactly why you would go into a pass with that mindframe, it isn't anything new. Hell there is a sticky posted discussing exactly this. However, that doesn't make it acceptable. The point of a pass isn't for the value of your sticks to increase. The point of a PIF isn't to get better than you sent. The point of an ISO isn't to get something kicked down for free (or to flip). I don't KNOW what your intentions are but if you are trying to say there isn't a pattern of odd behavior you must take us for fools. I loved your ideas for Star Wars themed passes but I can't stand that you a) blatantly skirted the rules to run the first one (by not having even received 2 passes at the time of starting it). b) consistently rejected the offers of advice and aid from senior members suggesting you remove personal taste and bias from your approval decisions and c) flat out said you intended to increase the value of your pass (BTW did anyone ever actually win the only contestin the pass?). If someone else wants to do some digging they are welcome to but I am sure you get my point.
Click to expand...

You may need to click on these links and reread this post...
 
insight said:
The reason why it isn't put to rest is because the question remains of why you thought it was acceptable behavior.

I know exactly why you would go into a pass with that mindframe, it isn't anything new. Hell there is a sticky posted discussing exactly this. However, that doesn't make it acceptable. The point of a pass isn't for the value of your sticks to increase. The point of a PIF isn't to get better than you sent. The point of an ISO isn't to get something kicked down for free (or to flip). I don't KNOW what your intentions are but if you are trying to say there isn't a pattern of odd behavior you must take us for fools. I loved your ideas for Star Wars themed passes but I can't stand that you a) blatantly skirted the rules to run the first one (by not having even received 2 passes at the time of starting it). b) consistently rejected the offers of advice and aid from senior members suggesting you remove personal taste and bias from your approval decisions and c) flat out said you intended to increase the value of your pass (BTW did anyone ever actually win the only contestin the pass?). If someone else wants to do some digging they are welcome to but I am sure you get my point.
Click to expand...

Bully,

I'd like to see you address Insight's linked issues above. At this point, I'm left with the impression that you just don't Get It.
 
bully1875 said:
pembroke3355 said:
bully1875 said:
What hasn't been answered here?
I feel that I have addressed and explained myself pretty well here...
Click to expand...


My question would be do you feel that it is really fair that your end on passes and PIF's heavily favor improving your stash? Was there any thought on your part that that you were getting the better end of these? Do you feel that this could lead to the thought that you are looking to greatly improve the quality of your humidor at the expense of other CPers?
Click to expand...

Ok, I have no problem addressing these questions..

1 - My intention on the passes I hosted were to fairly allow people to put and take CC for Non CC and vice versa. This allows people to try sticks they don't normally have the chance to get there hands on. With that being said, if you look through the passes I heavily relied on the input of others to make this go as smooth as possible, however I was warned of the complications that can arise from this and went ahead with it anyway.. So as far as the passes go, I take responsibility for that. But, honestly at no time of my span of being a member here have I ever tried to take advantage of any type of trade/buy/sell/PIF. If it looks to have happened that way, I truly am sorry for that. A straight forward answer to your question is no it is not fair, and was never intentional.

2- I at no time during my passes felt like I was making out better than anyone. Who knew what sticks were to be made available by the time it got to me.. Any P/T in question had multiple conversations in regards to it and a majority of the people involved agreed on the decision.

3- I see now over the last 2 days that with all of the conversation taken place that one can see how I would try to benefit from this, however, for those of you who have taken the chance to get to know me would understand that I would NEVER try to take advantage of someone else to benefit myself, especially to a group of people who up to now have been incredibly kind to me.

I hope this answers your questions, as I have nothing to hide here.
Click to expand...


Thank you for the responses. I am in no way here to bash you. I made a huge mistake here myself and I kicked and fussed about it for a while. When I took a honest look at it I found I was being self-centered. I was caught up with getting high end sticks at the expense of people I considered friends. I did not want to face the fact that I did these guys wrong but when it came to it that is exactly what I did. Once I made good and posted what was really(after reflection)going on I was able to move on here. People here gave me a chance to be a part of this community. Some still do not want to have anything to do with me and I can understand that as I brought it on myself. I just want to give you some food for thought.

As to answer number 1. I do not think it really has anything to do with CC for NC sticks. It had to do with the with some of the decisions on what a good take and put were. There were some really large gaps in this. They all had to do with the puts being greater(in some cases much greater)than the takes. You nixed a few where the put was less than the take and the amount was not that great. That can give the impression that you might be trying to get some gain out of it.

As to answer 2. Correct you had no way of knowing what sticks would be available when or what the end result would be. By insisting that the value of the puts always being greater than the takes you can be fairly sure that when the pass reaches home it will have a lot of goodies.

As to answer 3. Just take some time to reflect on why some of us think that it is possible that you were trying to make out. I wish you well and hope this turns out ok as I do believe everyone deserves another chance. :thumbs:
 
Seanholio said:
insight said:
The reason why it isn't put to rest is because the question remains of why you thought it was acceptable behavior.

I know exactly why you would go into a pass with that mindframe, it isn't anything new. Hell there is a sticky posted discussing exactly this. However, that doesn't make it acceptable. The point of a pass isn't for the value of your sticks to increase. The point of a PIF isn't to get better than you sent. The point of an ISO isn't to get something kicked down for free (or to flip). I don't KNOW what your intentions are but if you are trying to say there isn't a pattern of odd behavior you must take us for fools. I loved your ideas for Star Wars themed passes but I can't stand that you a) blatantly skirted the rules to run the first one (by not having even received 2 passes at the time of starting it). b) consistently rejected the offers of advice and aid from senior members suggesting you remove personal taste and bias from your approval decisions and c) flat out said you intended to increase the value of your pass (BTW did anyone ever actually win the only contestin the pass?). If someone else wants to do some digging they are welcome to but I am sure you get my point.
Click to expand...

Bully,

I'd like to see you address Insight's linked issues above. At this point, I'm left with the impression that you just don't Get It.
Click to expand...


Ok, I think these are the questions:

I loved your ideas for Star Wars themed passes but I can't stand thatyou:
a) blatantly skirted the rules to run the first one (by not havingeven received 2 passes at the time of starting it).
I had my 2 passes under my belt prior to starting my pass
b) consistentlyrejected the offers of advice and aid from senior members suggestingyou remove personal taste and bias from your approval decisions
Every member that gave me a suggestion was taken into consideration and every P/T that was in question had a majority rule prior to acceptance.
c)flat out said you intended to increase the value of your pass (BTW didanyone ever actually win the only contestin the pass?).
The intention to increase the value of the pass is for everyone in the pass.. This doesn't need to be said as it's natural progression of a pass.. No one ever claimed the prize even though I have announced the winner multiple times.

I actually got an email a few minutes ago from someone here who explained where this whole mess originated from. I have read through all of the posts.

no need to explain anymore. Im gone..
 
bully1875 said:
Seanholio said:
insight said:
The reason why it isn't put to rest is because the question remains of why you thought it was acceptable behavior.

I know exactly why you would go into a pass with that mindframe, it isn't anything new. Hell there is a sticky posted discussing exactly this. However, that doesn't make it acceptable. The point of a pass isn't for the value of your sticks to increase. The point of a PIF isn't to get better than you sent. The point of an ISO isn't to get something kicked down for free (or to flip). I don't KNOW what your intentions are but if you are trying to say there isn't a pattern of odd behavior you must take us for fools. I loved your ideas for Star Wars themed passes but I can't stand that you a) blatantly skirted the rules to run the first one (by not having even received 2 passes at the time of starting it). b) consistently rejected the offers of advice and aid from senior members suggesting you remove personal taste and bias from your approval decisions and c) flat out said you intended to increase the value of your pass (BTW did anyone ever actually win the only contestin the pass?). If someone else wants to do some digging they are welcome to but I am sure you get my point.
Click to expand...

Bully,

I'd like to see you address Insight's linked issues above. At this point, I'm left with the impression that you just don't Get It.
Click to expand...


Ok, I think these are the questions:

I loved your ideas for Star Wars themed passes but I can't stand thatyou:
a) blatantly skirted the rules to run the first one (by not havingeven received 2 passes at the time of starting it).
I had my 2 passes under my belt prior to starting my pass
b) consistentlyrejected the offers of advice and aid from senior members suggestingyou remove personal taste and bias from your approval decisions
Every member that gave me a suggestion was taken into consideration and every P/T that was in question had a majority rule prior to acceptance.
c)flat out said you intended to increase the value of your pass (BTW didanyone ever actually win the only contestin the pass?).
The intention to increase the value of the pass is for everyone in the pass.. This doesn't need to be said as it's natural progression of a pass.. No one ever claimed the prize even though I have announced the winner multiple times.

I actually got an email a few minutes ago from someone here who explained where this whole mess originated from. I have read through all of the posts.

no need to explain anymore. Im gone..
Click to expand...
Please, enlighten us where this "originated from".
 
[quote name='bully1875' date='04 September 2009 -
a) blatantly skirted the rules to run the first one (by not havingeven received 2 passes at the time of starting it).
I had my 2 passes under my belt prior to starting my pass

[/quote]

STARTING A PASS: You may not start a pass until you have successfully particpated in at least 3 other passes.

In other words, no. And while I didn't phrase my answer in the form of the question I think you can deduce my general question with the other links I posted is "WTF?" I don't think you have addressed at all the comment I quoted where you said you intend to improve the quality of your stash via pass (and subsequently in this thread replied to another guy that was never your intention?)

I don't know what the "Where this all started" comment is about but I call dibs if there is a prize being given out.
 
The infamous, anonymous E-mail strikes again! No PM's of unavowed support?

Doc.
 
bully1875 said:
I actually got an email a few minutes ago from someone here who explained where this whole mess originated from. I have read through all of the posts.

no need to explain anymore. Im gone..
Click to expand...


Unless that person is a personal friend of mine, you have no idea where this "whole mess" started from because you can't comment on what is going through my mind at any given point. This "whole mess" started with you and the way you dealt with different situations and exploded when you send out a seriously sub-standard PIF after receiving a very nice one.

Your last statement is normally a clear indication of someone that just wants take the easy way out.....
 
I blame Robbie (for starting the Return of the Jedi Pass). The pressure obviously pushed Bully over the edge.
 
pembroke3355 said:
bully1875 said:
2- I at no time during my passes felt like I was making out better than anyone. Who knew what sticks were to be made available by the time it got to me.. Any P/T in question had multiple conversations in regards to it and a majority of the people involved agreed on the decision.
Click to expand...

As to answer 2. Correct you had no way of knowing what sticks would be available when or what the end result would be. By insisting that the value of the puts always being greater than the takes you can be fairly sure that when the pass reaches home it will have a lot of goodies.
Click to expand...

I still consider myself to be a newb around here, but this situation just doesn't seem right... there's no "fairly sure" about it - if the insistance was that puts are always better than takes, then what's left at the end of the pass is going to be substantially better than what was in there to start with (other than maybe the odd stick that didn't get taken throughout the entire pass)

in my opinion, that seems like blatantly taking advantage - how could anyone not realize that?
 
To some degree it is a philosophical issue really and has been debated ad nauseam. Overputting is fine, so is marginal underputting (I am not nitpicking anyone over a dollar imo in a 'higher end pass'), but neither should ever be EXPECTED. The rule of thumb is always equal for equal. The problem isn't that somebody put a DAGA for an Opus Lancero or a Padron 80th for a 1926 #1, the problem is the expectation that it will be that way. In of itself not a damning offense but it sure does say something about what to expect in other realms of trading/participation.
 
OK, he's gone and there is no reason to continue this. It always ends up the same way in any case so lets go back to the cigars.
 
I blame Robbie (for starting the Return of the Jedi Pass). The pressure obviously pushed Bully over the edge.
Click to expand...

I blame myself for starting the Revenge Of The Sith Pass on CF 3 years ago that got the whole idea rolling. Why am I so damn clever. :D
 
EricDriscoll said:
I blame Robbie (for starting the Return of the Jedi Pass). The pressure obviously pushed Bully over the edge.
Click to expand...

I blame myself for starting the Revenge Of The Sith Pass on CF 3 years ago that got the whole idea rolling. Why am I so damn clever. :D
Click to expand...

Trouble maker :laugh:.

Jim
 
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