Closing the Gamelover thread?

See, here's the thing, there was nothing offensive on that thread. Guys were having a discussion about the merit and motives of a member of several boards. This individual was participating in the discussion and there really wasn't anything nasty posted at all. This kind of discussion simply must be allowed on a board like this or any cigar board for that matter. A few guys moan that they don't like that type of thread yet there they are reading and posting. If you don't like it, don't read it.
It's essential for guys that trade, participate in passes, buy, or generally interact with others on these boards to be able to have open and honest discussions about members who may have less than honorable intentions.

Oh, and PB, it's easy to back a guy who is under the gun when you don't have anything to lose, isn't it?

Closing that thread was wrongheaded.
No wonder people continue to leave here.

Neal

I was wondering about that myself. Dave said he would have more about this today but I think whatever he has should be posted in the original thread. Everything would be in context then and easier to follow. If after Dave's revelations things got out of hand, then the thread should have been closed.

JMHO which means that there may be a number of things I'm not privvy to that influenced the decision.

Neal> yes, I suppose when you look at it that way it is. But remember, I also have nothing to gain by standing up for him. If I am not well known for being the kind who will stand up for the target of multiple attackers by now, than you just don't know me at all. When I see someone being attacked by many, I will defend them as much as I can until I see that the attacks were warrented. This is true here and in real life. That is one thing that defines who I am.

Like it or not Neal, I have even defended you a time or two :0 It has been said that "that SamClemmons guy is an A$$" and I informed this person that you were in fact a very well respected A$$ and they should not be so critical.

I do agree however that the thread was locked for no good reason, other than it had the Potential to become Ugly. It was truly a good thread with an exchange of intel that can be quite insightfull if not valuable.

I agree compleatly with Neal's sentiments. He's compleatly correct in that it's an esential function on a site that is dedicated to the passing of cigars with real monetary value to them.

Having said that though, Dave did promise to have a post on the subject today and it doesn't seem like a big deal to wait a day and see what he has to say. We can always start another provided some type of gag rule is not imposed. The context and continuity issue is an important point, but the very first post in a new thread can and I would say should link to the old thread and thus updating everyone comming to the new thread just fine.

As the originator of the original thread on the subject I will say I thought it was staying very civilized and adult. As was very wisely pointed out, if a person is sick of the subject then by all means feel free to not read it. As the originator I have no problem with the actual lock though, but would have appreciated a quick PM if possible just letting me know why it was felt nessesary to lock the thread that I started. Not a big deal, but does sound like the polite thing to do just so I know what went wrong with my thread. Perhaps I'm wrong there though.

PB, I would be more then happy to let you do all the business you want with the guy. Give him all your own money that you want to. Save him the hassle of reselling your sticks and send him a check in the mail if it would make you feel better. It wares a little thin though to hear you citicize a person just for trying to warn people so they can avoid hardships others have fallen into. Loose all you want to the guy, but don't get huffy with others for trying to protect BOTL. I find it hard to believe that a guy can be banned from so many sites without there being something to it all. I find it hard to believe so many members on our site that I respect could be so wrong about a guy they've been having suspecions of there own about for months now. It's fine to blindly defend a guy if you want, but don't blame people for wanting to warn others and having evidence on their side. This all first came up in a NEWBIE PASS! You were and are unhappy with people for showing up and warning newbies of a potential danger. Would you be happier to have a pass full of newbies loose all there sticks and ruin there first ever pass just so long as a guy with lots of warning flags isn't unfairly persucuted until he actually does steal the sticks????? Come on. Do what you want but don't criticize others for trying to look out for each other. I would much rather see a guy take longer to build up a good reputation around here then see one true BOTL loose a single dime to a scam artist.

Neal,

No wonder people continue to leave here.

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Don't get down on our site. I know it's easy for a newbie like yourself with so few posts to get discuraged once in a while. We have a great site though, and it's the members who strive to keep it that way that makes it so. Even if it was wrong to close the thread (and we'll see what Dave ends up posting) the warning was still made and there was more then enough in the thread to warn anyone who refuses to be blind.

PB
No no no. Attack?? Folks were posting true information that was well documented. It was not an attack, more precisely it was a sharing of information. If this information is defamatory that's just too bad as long as it's true. The comments about this "dude" were very well documented and verifiable and if you can look at all that crap and still say the guy is okay then you just might want to have your judgement chip upgraded.

I am, in general, a jackass. I am, specifically, a jerk. There is no defense for that, it just is. If you were defending me then you were quite obviously under the same delusions of which you currently suffer.

Gibu, I agree with your sentiments, however, I don't believe the thread was done. GL had posted and probably would have again and I prefer to hear both sides of an issue rather than be led around by the nose. I get enough of that from my lovely wife.

NA

Man a guy does some honest work for once and doesn't check in and look what I missed

Hey lets get the record straight Neal AKA Sam Clemmons is no newbie. Neal its good to see you at your best as always

Where's that damn popcorn I see things heating up again......

BenjieV


...... Neal a newbie LMAO

Hey lets get the record straight Neal AKA Sam Clemmons is no newbie.

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Yea, I definately know this. It's just me poking a little fun at him. I usually get at least a little rise out of him over it, and it's really no fun at all if I don't.

That'll sure teach you to work at all. Honest or other wise.

Shouldn't have been locked.. but, moderators decisions are the last word, no matter what.

It's unlocked again. And thanks for the backup there, Matt.

Dave

See, thats cool. Just a little waiting period to get a mods opinion on the subject before it gets out of hand and then all is back on and unlocked. Not at all unreasonable in any way I would say. No big deal.

I am, in general, a jackass. I am, specifically, a jerk. There is no defense for that, it just is.

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Screw you, not you're not I take exception to your statement Neal, you're just plain wrong

gibu> lighten up, I see the veins in your neck popping, sheesh ??? Just because you agree with someone's methods and I don't, it doesn't mean I am critisizing them, any more than it means you are climbing in bed with them. Do you get this upset anytime someone dissagrees with you? Sad very sad. Have a beer before you blow a gasket ???

Neal> If you did not see the levity in my statement of having deffended you, well, I am sorry It was kindof like if someone said you stink, and I were to say Like hell.

I still think when a bunch of people start posting negative stuff about a guy, it is an attack, true or not. And besides, there are far too many people around who will blindly follow those people whether the facts are factual or not. So attack is the word I would use, justifiable? maybe, but attack none the less. Did the US not attack Japan on August 6, 1945, did we not attack Osama Bin Laden in Afganastan? Yes, attack is exactly the right word, however justified. As for the "dude" I never said he was "okay" and my "judgement chip" is just fine, Thanks.

It might not have been right to lock it at that time, but it looks like this thread is getting close to the old beating a dead horse with a stick level.

PuroBrat said:

If I am not well known for being the kind who will stand up for the target of multiple attackers by now, than you just don't know me at all. When I see someone being attacked by many, I will defend them as much as I can until I see that the attacks were warrented. This is true here and in real life. That is one thing that defines who I am.

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PB, its getting old hearing how you are the defender of the helpless people being attacked by others. How many have you been wrong about? All of them? Everybody you've stood by? Your track record of the people you defend would not be my suggestion to define who you are.... but, it was your post.

Neil or Gibu are absolutely correct and you are absolutely wrong in this matter...... except it.

Allofus123 said:

...... except it.

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You mean "accept it."



Grammar police going back to his donut now.

Dammit..... thats twice I've been tagged in the last 24 hours.

Makes sense though..... I passed math and biolgy courses with ease and always struggled with proper english.

Hmmmmm, maybe I'm into ebonics and am just to old to realize it. :0 :sign:

PB defended me once.....

Of course there are those who think he was wrong on that one too :0

coventrycat86 said:

PB defended me once.....

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OK, he got one right....................

























...........the jury will reconvene on this one after LOL. :0 ROFLMAO :sign:

Allofus123 said:

PuroBrat said:

If I am not well known for being the kind who will stand up for the target of multiple attackers by now, than you just don't know me at all. When I see someone being attacked by many, I will defend them as much as I can until I see that the attacks were warrented. This is true here and in real life. That is one thing that defines who I am.

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PB, its getting old hearing how you are the defender of the helpless people being attacked by others. How many have you been wrong about? All of them? Everybody you've stood by? Your track record of the people you defend would not be my suggestion to define who you are.... but, it was your post.

Neil or Gibu are absolutely correct and you are absolutely wrong in this matter...... except it.

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I accept that to be your opinion. I don't deny that I have been wrong, but I will never, I repeat NEVER just go along with the majority, no questions asked. I will allways defend a brother untill I see the facts for myself, to do otherwise is cheap and weak. If you are tired of that fact, tough, I am a bit tired of you thinking everything I say and do is your duty to scrutinize. So I guess as far as tiredness, we are close to even.

I ain't changing who I am for you or anyone else. When I am wrong, I will say I was wrong. I haven't allways been wrong, and once in a while I will be right. In this particular case I was wrong, and I would still support him if he showed that he changed his actions, but he didn't, he lied about it, so that is it. I have my proof. I will not stand up for him anymore.

I am sorry that you feel this is a character flaw, but that is what I think of following the crowd as well, so again, we are even.