Cohibin's Cohiba

Need to set the stage here real quick, as the initial post flamed up pretty good and got locked up:

A new member came aboard (Cohibin) and had some cigars that were reportedly picked up in Cuba, and were Cohibas that he was attempting to sell. People questioned the authenticity and I obliged in test smoking the cigars.

Cohiba Pyramid EL

The construction of the stick was good and it most definitely had the trademark Cuban farm smell you get when opening a box of Habanos. I've bought quite a few boxes of ISOM's and the smell is always present, to various degrees. Have never experienced it w/ the boxes of domestics I've purchased. Back to the construction: No veins, a nice wrapper, and consistent firmness throughout.

Ignition was easily granted and the stick burnt evenly and well. However, I also lit a Cohiba Esplendido **edited from Estupendo...it was late when I wrote this** immediately after lighting the suspect EL and smoked both of the cigars together. I figured this would truly be the best way to gauge things.

I must say that the suspect EL burnt one hell of a lot better than the Esplendido and was a much more consistent smoke. However, I don't think the EL was a Cohiba. It just didn't have that trademark taste that Cohiba's have and it was far too mild. No creaminess either, as is often found in Cohibas.

I am not going to throw stones here, as I really don't know Cohibin. He was prompt in sending the cigars to me, and I appreciate that. Did he get caught up in some type of twisted ordeal? Maybe. Was the cigar Cuban? I most definitely think so. The flavor profile and smell were very similar to what I've experienced in many mild Cuban smokes.

Furthemore, Cohibin sent a darker EL Pyramid, a pipe, and a Culebra. I have not yet smoked these. He (Cohibin) has told me that the Pipe and the Culebra are not Cohiba products, and that the roller simply put Cohiba labels on them. Stuff like that bothers me. I'd rather have a cigar w/ out a label that was simply sold as Cuban than a Cuban cigar w/ a fake label.

I must say though that the construction of the Pipe and Culebra are simply phenomenal, and many of the members here (including me) love the idea of having humidor fodder like this to show off. Again, I have little doubt that these sticks are Cuban.

Cohibin: I will smoke the remaining sticks and report my findings, as that's what I agreed to do. However, I must admit that there's a great deal of gray area here. EL's w/ out EL labels give off bad Ju-ju. I would avoid attempting to sell these as EL's and simply stick w/ hand rolled Habanos in your description. That will likely prevent similar problems in the future. As you are finding, although the internet is a very large place, those who frequent it, and specifically, frequent forums such as this, are a relatively small group.

I should have sent you a real Cohiba EL for you to compare. The Cohiba EL Piramide is a *nice* smoke... you'd have known if it were the real deal.

Very Interesting. Thanks Tony. I'm so far happy with the results. Let's see how the others go. That pyramid (light wrapper) Tony smoked it's probably a reserva p since it doesn't have the maduro wrapper and are the only Cohiba p's with light wrapper that I've seen. I found that cigar to be mild but tasty. Those I don't sell. I have only a few left and are for my personal consumption.
The one with the maduro wrapper he hasn't smoked yet. That's the LE. Hope Tony smokes the maduro colorado next.
I can't wait until you smoke the culebra and the pipe. I also must say, I'm seriously contemplating on removing the Cohiba bands of these 2 to avoid more confussion and perhaps come up with something that still describes them as custom rolled cuban Habanos, but don't assosiate themselves to the Cohiba brand. Any suggestions? I'll make my own band for those?? How about an "Habanos" band?

Tony, I'm very thankfull of you taking the time to do all of this :thumbs:

This weekend, a guy that bought and smoked the darker LE from the yahoo auction left me some great feedback in my yahoo auction... I still got faith

What is a Cohiba Estupendo?

I'm guessing he means Esplendido.

vewyphishy said:

I'm guessing he means Esplendido.

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You got it. Sorry about that. Made the change in the post. No excuse other than it being late when I wrote the review and I was tired

Interesting stuff. Thanks for the write-up Tony. I'll be very curious to see what you think of the pipe and culebra.

Based on what Tony's said, I'm quite sure that these cigars are not Cohibas -- it's possible they use Cuban tobacco, but even that I'm not sure of -- and who knows what the quality of the tobacco is.

The question is, if they were of any kind of genuine pedigree, why the deception? Why put Cohiba bands on them when they are clearly not Cohibas?

moki said:

Based on what Tony's said, I'm quite sure that these cigars are not Cohibas -- it's possible they use Cuban tobacco, but even that I'm not sure of -- and who knows what the quality of the tobacco is.

The question is, if they were of any kind of genuine pedigree, why the deception? Why put Cohiba bands on them when they are clearly not Cohibas?

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I'm not sure why there would be a question to whether the tobacco is Cuban or not. It's even more strange for me to say this because I know it's 100% Cuban. You may question the blend if anything due to personal experiences with the brand. There wasn't intention of deception on putting those bands on (on the pipes and culebras). The roller, who is the artist, found it appropriate, and if he decided to put the Cohiba band on them then there's probably a reason and I respected that. I may change them to avoid confusion and replace them with something that describes them as what they are.
Some "oddities" are sometimes sold officially at some tourists stores and have all kinds of official bands. Not sure if they are ment to be smoked though.
On the p's being an original brand but not Cohiba; When the cigars were taken out, they weren't boxed or banded. They were part of a vitola. If their brand is other than Cohiba, it could've been an honest missidentity of the vitola and it's future corresponding brand. This is a feasible possibility. This is why, in the future, I plan to get the cigar boxed and sealed to avoid any issues. There should be no questions, however, that these cigars are puros Habanos.

There is no question that they were created by a talented roller, but how can you say there was no intention of deception? Without the bands they are nice oddities. With the bands they are counterfits. I can't just paint a painting and sign it 'Picasso' because I'm the artist and want to.

other1 said:

There is no question that they were created by a talented roller, but how can you say there was no intention of deception? Without the bands they are nice oddities. With the bands they are counterfits. I can't just paint a painting and sign it 'Picasso' because I'm the artist and want to.

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Cohiba doesn't make these odities, but the roller could've very easily use the same quality material to make them. Is that a fake?
I'm not really concerned with the oddities being Cohiba by x standards since their value is based on how rare they are and the mastery they were made with. They were also made with the best tobacco in the world. I believe an Habanos lable and nothing else would've been the best way to go IMO.

Cohibin said:

other1 said:

There is no question that they were created by a talented roller, but how can you say there was no intention of deception? Without the bands they are nice oddities. With the bands they are counterfits.  I can't just paint a painting and sign it 'Picasso' because I'm the artist and want to.

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Cohiba doesn't make these odities, but the roller could've very easily use the same quality material to make them. Is that a fake?
I'm not really concerned with the oddities being Cohiba by x standards since their value is based on how rare they are and the mastery they were made with. They were also made with the best tobacco in the world. I believe an Habanos lable and nothing else would've been the best way to go IMO.

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Quality aside, it still doesn't make the cigars Cohiba... no matter what standards or materials were used. The example other1 used is prime. The cigars are what they are... not what they're being "sold as."

Anything outside of the official Habanos SA/Altadis catalogue would be considered an unofficial production cigar, not neccesarily a fake or counterfeit. Putting a Cohiba band on a non-Cohiba blend, would be a deception, somewhat. Now, since the piramides are official production or were at one time, as they are not in this year's catalogue, if you put a band on them that is contrary to the legitimate blend of the cigar, I think that could be construed as counterfeit or fake. All this is said with no consideration to Cohibin's actual cigars, just to the facts of official Havana cigar production.

I've asked Matt to post his findings.

OK, got a chance to smoke one of the piramides. It was the darker of the two. It was indeed a good cigar, albeit a bit young. I can pretty much attest to the fact that the wrapper was indeed wrapper for the Edicion Limitada line. As to the blend, I don't believe it was the Cohiba blend. It tasted more like a Partagas EL blend to me. I have not had a Partagas piramide in some time, but there was something in the taste that I remember about those. It has been a couple of months since my last Cohiba EL piramide too. I smoked about 3/4 of a box of these when they came out and since then have only had one or two. The one thing that lends credence to this cigar having that wrapper was the burn. It was exactly like all of the ELs I have had with the darker, "maduro" wrapper. They do not burn well and they heat up fast. The cigar was well constructed and had no draw problems, but the burn, while somewhat even, had to be re-lit numerous times. I think I will pull out a Cohiba EL piramide later this week and taste it to see if I sense anything similar and will do the same with a Partagas piramide. All in all, not a bad smoke at all, though I only pay about $6.00 a piece for the Partagas EL piramides. The Cohibas cost me closer to $12 each. So, the $30 each is a bit more than I would pay for this cigar.
I would really like to try this blend and wrapper in a tres' petite. I would guess it to be quite a little firecracker of a cigar.
I will smoke the other one as soon as I can. I took some pictures of this cigar before and during my smoking it.

Cohibin's Cohibas

Thanks Matt. Nice pics. I was commenting to Matt that this could be a HYM p judging by the time it was aquired before banding being that the only LE ps of the 2003 edition are the Hoyo De Monterrey ones (unless others are coming out and I don't know about). Anybody got Hoyos bands to spare?

Cohibin said:

Anybody got Hoyos bands to spare?

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WTF? ???

I can't really think of a better reaction to that statement. You come up with a (weak) story about how you acquired these "Cohibas." Then under fire, you retract saying they may not be Cohibas after all but rather just cigars with the Cohiba band. After a couple of them have been fired up, the reviews clearly indicate they are not Cohibas. Now, you have the audacity to try and reband these with another EL band? At what point did any of this make sense?

I'm guessing I shouldn't even bother with the ethics behind this. Why not do yourself a favor and just leave these unidentifiable cigars unbanded? You might be able to salvage what's left of your credibility.

Bottom line is that the cigars are not "official" production and should not be labeled as such. I have had many, many custom rolled Havanas and believe it or not there are "official" custom rolled Havanas. Unless they are verified by Habanos SA though, they are not official and should not be banded as such. The LCDHs sell special rolled cigars in most all of their shops. They are usually noted with what blend they are (Partagas, Punch, etc. etc.), but, they are usually not banded with the marquees bands. Instead they often use a La Casa Band or no band at all. A roller would not be allowed to put a marquee's band on a cigar without permission from Habanos SA. It sounds to me like these cigars were basically "stolen", though that word may be a bit too harsh. That being said, even if they were "official" cigars, removed from the factory before banding and boxing, they should not be represented as such, since there can be no true documentation to the fact.

Dude. Give it up already.

Oh gee, on second thought this painting doesn't look like a Picasso.. Let me cross that out and write in Monet. There, thats better.

What I'm thinking is my brother "assumed" by the LE maduro wrapper it was a Cohiba LE when he grabbed it. My appologies to all on this regard.