CP Advisory Council

A little background on my thoughts in bullet format, just kinda free flowing ideas:

+ The group would be 3-5 persons, all volunteering themselves, approved by the community in a blind poll.
+ The group would be available to help advise ways to settle disputes, offer advice on conduct related questions, make recommendations for disciplinary actions, etc.
+ The group would have a form available to fill out, that when sent, would send an email to each person in the group.
+ Once the email is received, the group would email/pm the person back with brief advice. The initial response shold be done indepentandly of the group. Meaning, reply first with your take on the situation, then talk amongst our selves. This allows a wide variety of responses for the BOTL/SOTL to act on their own.
+ After responding to the intial form, if the issue needs intervention, the group would talk together, decide on a list of resolutions, and put them up for blind vote. This way, CP would have the final say so in a blind fashion w/o recourse.
+ I am posting this because I have a lot invested in this forum. Not financially, but a strong sense of ownership. I have seen this board at it's very best and it's very worst.
+ I am not trying to rump Rod, nor am I trying to be a power freak, I am just offereing an idea to the community.
+ Every member has a right to ownership of CP.
+ Yes, new members should suck it up being a FNG before running off at the gums.
- The group is not available for approving trades or passes. Nor will the group intervene in such. Passes and trades are the resposibility of the participants. The group is only available if the terms are not met.
- I am tired of the bickering.
- I am tired of the people w/ 6 months and 1000 posts being looked at as mentors.
- I am tired of FOG's being over zealous in jumping peoples ass.
- I am tired of people not seeing eye to eye. I am upset that when people don't see eye to eye, the only way to make things better is to appologize publically. Sometimes more than one person is wrong.
- I am upset that some FOGs and FNGs don't practice what they preach!!!
- I am upset that there a lot of BOTL's that no longer contribute because they think CP is a soap opera.
- I am upset that there are a lot of FNG's that don't contribute because of "peer presure" (for lack of better term).
- I feel things have beome too lax for FOG's and FNGs alike. There has to be something else out the besides Rod locking threads or banning users.

I appologize for being on a soap box. But there has to be some better way to go about the daily policing of the board. I am not trying to step on toes of anyone. And by all means, if you can make my idea better, go for it. If you have your own idea, start a new poll. If you don't have an opinion, then by all means, follow a the leader you feel is right, or go to Cigar Weekly and see if you like it better over there. I am signing my name and I will not edit my post. I stand behind my words and actions, unlike some of the posters lately.

Emiliano Acuna
Miami Beach FL

Might as well have moderators if you have this...

Lee said:

Might as well have moderators if you have this...

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Moderators can lock threads, delete, etc. This is ment to be preemptive. Allow someone to complain to someone and get feed back. Sort of aloow things to work itself out prior to getting locked or banned. Follow my drift?

Emo

I don't believe the forum should pick the group. I believe Rod, if he agreed, should pick guys he feels are capable of doing the job. Guys he feels he's on the same page with.

While I don't have a problem with the idea, I don't see it working as well as intended. Hell, these idiots, when obviously wrong, won't take and suck it up and go on. They continue to beat a dead horse. They know everything and anyone who opposes their "new" view, is an A-hole FOG!!!!

I believe we have grown and with all growth comes a percentage of idiots. Idiots that think they know everything and have no respect for ANYONE!!! Some, over time, learn. Some don't and are ran off.(Not quickly enough in my opinion)

CP has become drama filled. Thin-skinned idiots w/o a sense of humor. :angry2:

If you don't have anything to "ADD", don't!!!

I'll keep my eye on this to see how it goes.

Floyd T. :sign:

PS: My comments apply to that 1% of members who serve no purpose. Everyone else, continue about your business.

SKYDIVNEKD said:

I don't believe the forum should pick the group. I believe Rod, if he agreed, should pick guys he feels are capable of doing the job. Guys he feels he's on the same page with.

While I don't have a problem with the idea, I don't see it working as well as intended. Hell, these idiots, when obviously wrong, won't take and suck it up and go on. They continue to beat a dead horse. They know everything and anyone who opposes their "new" view, is an A-hole FOG!!!!

I believe we have grown and with all growth comes a percentage of idiots. Idiots that think they know everything and have no respect for ANYONE!!! Some, over time, learn. Some don't and are ran off.(Not quickly enough in my opinion)

CP has become drama filled. Thin-skinned idiots w/o a sense of humor. :angry2:

If you don't have anything to "ADD", don't!!!

I'll keep my eye on this to see how it goes.

Floyd T. :sign:

PS: My comments apply to that 1% of members who serve no purpose. Everyone else, continue about your business.

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Floyd, honestly, I don't think it will be easy going's. I do think it will work as intended though. But those with thin skin will be told to suck it up. When they hear it priavtely because they asked, perhaps they will sing a different tune.

Emo

I voted "maybe". I won't say this is a "bad idea" , but I will say I personally would be disappointed if CP really has to go to something like this. I too am tired of all the "drama" but I like the very much the idea of a self-moderated community.

Floyd is right about all the thin-skinned crybabies. If CP as a whole simply stops putting up with the whining about every other "offensive comment" that's posted this would be an even better place.

grand cru no 2 said:

I voted "maybe". I won't say this is a "bad idea" , but I will say I personally would be disappointed if CP really has to go to something like this. I too am tired of all the "drama" but I like the very much the idea of a self-moderated community.

Floyd is right about all the thin-skinned crybabies. If CP as a whole simply stops putting up with the whining about every other "offensive comment" that's posted this would be an even better place.

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My vision is this, people actually talk to other people before posting something contreversial, or ask some one if they think the other person is in the wrong. All I reall want to do is get people talking behind the scenes.

Emo

What we need is people to THINK! I remember posting something and I was unsure if I was "out of line" and I asked George about it. Anyone with a brain should do that.

emodx said:

grand cru no 2 said:

I voted "maybe". I won't say this is a "bad idea" , but I will say I personally would be disappointed if CP really has to go to something like this. I too am tired of all the "drama" but I like the very much the idea of a self-moderated community.

Floyd is right about all the thin-skinned crybabies. If CP as a whole simply stops putting up with the whining about every other "offensive comment" that's posted this would be an even better place.

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My vision is this, people actually talk to other people before posting something contreversial, or ask some one if they think the other person is in the wrong. All I reall want to do is get people talking behind the scenes.

Emo

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Emo - seriously - the problem I see is individuals who think they're not wrong in anything they post. They feel they're representative of some sector of CigarPass - they feel entitled to their opinions, and therefore believe they're immune from criticism. Setting up a "council" is not going to change that.

The biggest problem I see is not letting things run their course. Through discussion comes understanding. The community generally lets its feelings be known. From my view - many times there are misunderstandings of intentions in posts. Letting a discussion run its course, although painful at times, tends to resolve issues.

I know it's hard to believe, but there are those that don't think like you. They don't want to have their issues censored by some individual, group or "council" They would view that as "nazi" tactics.

I sincerely think you're going to have a tough time having members approve their posts through an advisory council...

I like our little petrie dish. We should just let things be as they are and evolve IMHO.

ggiese said:

emodx said:

grand cru no 2 said:

I voted "maybe". I won't say this is a "bad idea" , but I will say I personally would be disappointed if CP really has to go to something like this. I too am tired of all the "drama" but I like the very much the idea of a self-moderated community.

Floyd is right about all the thin-skinned crybabies. If CP as a whole simply stops putting up with the whining about every other "offensive comment" that's posted this would be an even better place.

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My vision is this, people actually talk to other people before posting something contreversial, or ask some one if they think the other person is in the wrong. All I reall want to do is get people talking behind the scenes.

Emo

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Emo - seriously - the problem I see is individuals who think they're not wrong in anything they post. They feel they're representative of some sector of CigarPass - they feel entitled to their opinions, and therefore believe they're immune from criticism. Setting up a "council" is not going to change that.

The biggest problem I see is not letting things run their course. Through discussion comes understanding. The community generally lets its feelings be known. From my view - many times there are misunderstandings of intentions in posts. Letting a discussion run its course, although painful at times, tends to resolve issues.

I know it's hard to believe, but there are those that don't think like you. They don't want to have their issues censored by some individual, group or "council" They would view that as "nazi" tactics.

I sincerely think you're going to have a tough time having members approve their posts through an advisory council...

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G- I see your point of view about people defending their view. I see you r idea about letting things rnu it course. My view is not censorship. The group is to allow ideas to flow both ways.

Emo

|My original idea is that people can fill out one form, and from filling out that form they get a bit of advice. I am not out to kill posts.

Emo

emodx said:

|My original idea is that people can fill out one form, and from filling out that form they get a bit of advice. I am not out to kill posts.

Emo

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Logistically, I think you're trying to institutionalize a free exchange of ideas. I just don't know how you can possibly accomplish that...

ggiese said:

emodx said:

|My original idea is that people can fill out one form, and from filling out that form they get a bit of advice. I am not out to kill posts.

Emo

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Logistically, I think you're trying to institutionalize a free exchange of ideas. I just don't know how you can possibly accomplish that...

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Because posts dont go through the council. The council is there to ask advice from. Outsdide of public scrutiny...

Do you think that the so called "Asshats" around here are going to seek advice from some sort of council before posting, when all along they think they are right, even if they are wrong? I highly doubt it.

Those who are willing to fill out a form for advice are generally smart enough just to PM someone with their question or comments.

I think you intentions are in the right place but it would almost feel like a dictatorship if we did something like this.

Shiba said:

Do you think that the so called "Asshats" around here are going to seek advice from some sort of council before posting, when all along they think they are right, even if they are wrong? I highly doubt it.

Those who are willing to fill out a form for advice are generally smart enough just to PM someone with their question or comments.

I think you intentions are in the right place but it would almost feel like a dictatorship if we did something like this.

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Damn it!!! This is what I was trying to say!!!

Thanks, Shiba!!!

I think the "entitled" won't give a rat's ass about what any advisory coucil has to offer. I honestly believe they will think of the council as just another FOG establishment to blame for all of their woes.

My .02

People with the "no one is going to tell ME what to do" mentality like Great King Rat, gtphale, and jefferoo won't take this "council's" advice so I see absolutely no use for this at all. This proposal is way too complicated and I think it's a very bad idea.

I personally like the "banning poll" system that is used on CigarSmokers. :thumbs:

I have not voted yet as I am still mulling over your proposal. Parts of your idea sound reasonable even logical. However, other parts suggest that were it to come about exactly as you intended, your frustration would not be relieved, and perhaps even exacerbated. For example, what if someone were voted in per the first quote but had the characteristics from the second quote?

+ The group would be 3-5 persons, all volunteering themselves, approved by the community in a blind poll.

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versus

- I am tired of the people w/ 6 months and 1000 posts being looked at as mentors.

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Ultimately, while I share many of your frustrations and concerns, I think that there is a troubling confusion of aim, means and ends in your proposal as written. At the vary deepest level, you and I are thinking about values, norms and standards of conduct within a community. These are not things that exist separately from the members of the community, rather, it is the negotiation and acceptance of these "customs" that creates a community with a distinctive culture out of a bunch of otherwise disconnected individuals. It also follows that as each individual comes to understand these customs in their own individual way, as they practice their understanding of these things, that these customs can and will change. Some will change subtly and over time while a very few may change suddenly and energetically.

I am sorry to say this and while it may put me on "the list" it must be said.
"You can never go home again."

Nor can we truly expect the culture that fit this community when it had 500 members in 2002 to necessarily fit those same 500 plus an additional 2,000 four years later.

What we can do is build a better and stronger community by enlisting the well-intentioned and earnest newcomers in this mutual community-building. And, importantly, recognize that we can choose to shape character through various methods. The call-out is one. Praise and positive reinforcement is yet another.

So, as a counterproposal, I offer up the idea of a "mentor" program. I'll spare the sociological explanation and justifications but suffice it to say that programs of this nature have been able to reduce violence, improve performance and graduation rates in the very worst of inner city high schools where metal detectors, guards and zero-tolerance have not. I haven't thought through the details but would be more than willing to help develop the idea in open forum.

I have not posted at length or in depth on this subject. However, I have spoken from the bottom of my heart regarding my hopes and concerns about this community with Craig, "lucasbuck." If anyone here has an understanding of exactly what I feel the stakes are, both personally and as a member of the community, it is him. I'm outing Craig as my mentor because a great part of who I am here on the forum, my conduct and carriage, are due to his careful and considerate guidance.

Finally, do you think it's a good idea to...

...rump Rod

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?

Wilkey

Brother Shiba, Greg, well said. God I'm wordy!

As far as I'm concerned, these asshats will continue to be challenged. It's worked for years and will continue to work. if the new guys want to push the limits, they better be ready to hear about it. If those CC mentioned don't like what they get, maybe they should read more and post less.