The Vitasea timeline

You bought cigars directly from someone working at the factory?
This is not a guarantee. The cigars could be false as well.

The dealer is a torcedor and he picked up your box directely at the factory.
Once again, this does not at all guarantee the authenticity of your cigars.

Counterfeit cigars in Cuba too
The counterfeit cigar is also a problem in Cuba. The only way to get true cigars is to buy them at the official stores. Indeed, Havana hides many workshops producing counterfeits cigars and a huge network of retailers. Practically all the cigars resulting from these parallel networks are imitations.

Non-official Havana cigars made in the factory
Good to know: In Cuba, each torcedor can roll cigars for his personal use on his own time. He can do this at work and with his own tobacco. Thus, you could buy a box directly from a torcedor, at the entrance of the factory, and get counterfeit cigars.

How good or bad is an imitation?
A counterfeit cigar will not be inevitably bad; You can find various qualities on the parallel market. Some are not smokable, stuffed with paper and reject material, or quite simply badly rolled, and others can be done with cuban tobacco and of good quality.

The cost of a counterfeit cigar
Should you travel to Cuba or elsewhere, if you plan to buy cigars directly from someone at a very (too) attractive price, and through the non official market, the point is to buy these cigars for what they are (most probably imitations) and pay for your box accordingly. If you pay 30 $US a box, then okay, that's a good deal.

Why does a counterfeit cigar in Cuba should be different than official Havana cigars?
Just like some prestigious French wines, the Havana is the result of complex procedures and know-how. In all this process, let's just mention the selection of particular tobaccos by the expert of the factory, blend of 3 types of leaves (ligero, seco and volado) in a way that will give to the cigar its identity and a taste in conformity with the brand.

If I could have the opportunuty to take care of a single vine in the best French vineyard, I would not for sure produce an exceptionnal wine, even with the best conditions. The same applies to the counterfeit cigars in Cuba: You could find there some suitable and even tasty cigars, but keep in mind that they will be completely different than the brand printed on the box.

Yes you can buy some Cohiba, Montecristo or whatever from the grey market, but do not pay more than 20 or 30$ a box (and definitely not 300$!). Smoke your cigars for what they are: modest (and maybe interesting) cigars but not Espendidos.

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About five years ago during a trip to Havana, I joined three professional tasters in a small room atop the La Corona factory to taste and evaluate a sample of Hoyo de Monterrey Epicure No. 2 robustos that had recently been rolled. The three men included a manager and two top workers at the factory. No more than five minutes after my friend and I had left the factory, we were approached outside by one of the men who had been at the tasting, and asking if we wanted to purchase the same cigars we had just tasted at a much-reduced price. Having been warned about the large numbers of fake cigars sold in Havana, we declined. Initially it came as a surprise that a top factory worker would do this, but given the small salaries that Cuban cigar factory workers make (about $150 a month), and the high price of Cuban cigars like the famed Cohiba, it's easy to see the temptation to sell fake ones. Most of the fake cigars in Cuba are sold for $25 to $50 per box to tourists on the street who know very little about cigars. The cigars are either smuggled out of the factories by workers or are made by individuals making a few boxes a week in their homes from stolen tobacco, boxes and bands obtained from cigar factory workers and farmers. The tourists then bring them home and try to sell them or give them to friends.

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coventrycat86 said:

Why bother?

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Gonz said:

I'll add a quick $.02 -

I received a pm from Vitasea last week, after I had posted that thread about buying a box with the date of my son's birth (7/03). He was offering to sell me a box of Cohiba Robustos with that date code, for $350, and apparantly they "are dark and starting to plume a bit".

Two ways to look at this. A nice gesture, and a heads up play on your part, to have noticed my need and known that you had a box that I was looking for. Assuming they are genuine. That's the other way to look at it. If you know they are starting to plume, then the box has been opened and the seal broken. Who knows what you could have placed in there instead. And I can get a box of those for much less than $350 anyways.

He offered to send to me for my approval before payment, which was also a nice gesture. But I'll wait to find something else, it's not worth the risk, especially for something as meaningful as this particular box of cigars.

Take it as you will. As Moki said, he seems like a nice guy, unfortunately slightly misguided.

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moki said:

March 6th, 2005 -- Vitasea joins the forum, talks about accidentally landing his sailboat in Cuba (and later elaborates that there was an injury to a member of his crew, and they were turned away from the Cayman Islands for some reason):

http://www.cigarpass.com/forumsipb/index.php?showtopic=11664

.....

March 16th, 2005 -- Reviews of the free "enticer" cigars from Vitasea start rolling in; note the vehement denials that the cigars are not the real deal:

http://www.cigarpass.com/forums/index.php?...ndpost&p=172859

http://www.cigarpass.com/forums/index.php?...38&#entry173038

.....

Various dates in March, 2005 -- Other reviews of Vitasea's cigars roll in; some are sure they are fake, others liked the cigars:

http://www.cigarpass.com/forumsipb/index.php?showtopic=11993

http://www.cigarpass.com/forumsipb/index.php?showtopic=11839

http://www.cigarpass.com/forumsipb/index.php?showtopic=11934

http://www.cigarpass.com/forumsipb/index.php?showtopic=11887

http://www.cigarpass.com/forumsipb/index.php?showtopic=11860

.....

March 31st, 2005 -- Vitasea soliciting to sell his Cuban cigars to various members:

http://www.cigarpass.com/forumsipb/index.php?showtopic=12072

http://www.cigarpass.com/forumsipb/index.php?showtopic=12075

.....

April 12th, 2005 -- Vitasea apologizes for the fake Cohiba cigars:

http://www.cigarpass.com/forumsipb/index.php?showtopic=12278

.....

June 13th, 2005 -- Kenny finally gets around to smoking the "Esplendido" that I gave to him (from Vitasea):

http://www.cigarpass.com/forumsipb/index.php?showtopic=13267

.....

July 12th, 2005 -- Vitasea sends out more unsolicited and solicited cigars (with a price list included) and the cycle begins again:

http://www.cigarpass.com/forumsipb/index.php?showtopic=13742

.....

(There are other threads as well... do a search)

Just presenting the timeline... draw your own conclusions.

He states he is obtaining his cigars from people he knows who work at or have contacts at cigar factories in Cuba; the initial (fakes) were from rural factories, the recent cigars are from factories in Havana.

Useful links on counterfeit Cuban cigars:

http://www.cigarnexus.com/counsel/counterfeit/

http://www.cigars-of-cuba.com/advice/advice_fake.asp

http://www.cigaraficionado.com/Cigar/CA_Ar...22,1303,00.html

http://www.cigaraficionado.com/Cigar/CA_Ar...322,778,00.html

http://www.cgarsltd.co.uk/document.aspx?id=fakes.htm

...and for Vitasea... from: http://www.shortcut-cigars.com/en/content/...feit_cigars.htm

You bought cigars directly from someone working at the factory?
This is not a guarantee. The cigars could be false as well.

The dealer is a torcedor and he picked up your box directely at the factory.
Once again, this does not at all guarantee the authenticity of your cigars.

Counterfeit cigars in Cuba too
The counterfeit cigar is also a problem in Cuba. The only way to get true cigars is to buy them at the official stores. Indeed, Havana hides many workshops producing counterfeits cigars and a huge network of retailers. Practically all the cigars resulting from these parallel networks are imitations.

Non-official Havana cigars made in the factory
Good to know: In Cuba, each torcedor can roll cigars for his personal use on his own time. He can do this at work and with his own tobacco. Thus, you could buy a box directly from a torcedor, at the entrance of the factory, and get counterfeit cigars.

How good or bad is an imitation?
A counterfeit cigar will not be inevitably bad; You can find various qualities on the parallel market. Some are not smokable, stuffed with paper and reject material, or quite simply badly rolled, and others can be done with cuban tobacco and of good quality.

The cost of a counterfeit cigar
Should you travel to Cuba or elsewhere, if you plan to buy cigars directly from someone at a very (too) attractive price, and through the non official market, the point is to buy these cigars for what they are (most probably imitations) and pay for your box accordingly. If you pay 30 $US a box, then okay, that's a good deal.

Why does a counterfeit cigar in Cuba should be different than official Havana cigars?
Just like some prestigious French wines, the Havana is the result of complex procedures and know-how. In all this process, let's just mention the selection of particular tobaccos by the expert of the factory, blend of 3 types of leaves (ligero, seco and volado) in a way that will give to the cigar its identity and a taste in conformity with the brand.

If I could have the opportunuty to take care of a single vine in the best French vineyard, I would not for sure produce an exceptionnal wine, even with the best conditions. The same applies to the counterfeit cigars in Cuba: You could find there some suitable and even tasty cigars, but keep in mind that they will be completely different than the brand printed on the box.

Yes you can buy some Cohiba, Montecristo or whatever from the grey market, but do not pay more than 20 or 30$ a box (and definitely not 300$!). Smoke your cigars for what they are: modest (and maybe interesting) cigars but not Espendidos.

Click to expand...

...and also for Vitasea... from: http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/531

About five years ago during a trip to Havana, I joined three professional tasters in a small room atop the La Corona factory to taste and evaluate a sample of Hoyo de Monterrey Epicure No. 2 robustos that had recently been rolled. The three men included a manager and two top workers at the factory. No more than five minutes after my friend and I had left the factory, we were approached outside by one of the men who had been at the tasting, and asking if we wanted to purchase the same cigars we had just tasted at a much-reduced price. Having been warned about the large numbers of fake cigars sold in Havana, we declined. Initially it came as a surprise that a top factory worker would do this, but given the small salaries that Cuban cigar factory workers make (about $150 a month), and the high price of Cuban cigars like the famed Cohiba, it's easy to see the temptation to sell fake ones. Most of the fake cigars in Cuba are sold for $25 to $50 per box to tourists on the street who know very little about cigars. The cigars are either smuggled out of the factories by workers or are made by individuals making a few boxes a week in their homes from stolen tobacco, boxes and bands obtained from cigar factory workers and farmers. The tourists then bring them home and try to sell them or give them to friends.

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I'd like to note that none of this is personal; Vitasea seems like a very nice guy, and I think he's genuine... but I think he's very misguided here.

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vitasea said:

why do you hate me ???
iam really a purtty nice guy
a little nuts ...but?????

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vitasea said:

i tell you what moki come down to cuba with me in nov and you show me how its done
free ride
all legal i am licensed
and it would be a great time!!!!!!!

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moki said:

vitasea said:

i tell you what moki come down to cuba with me in nov and you show me how its done
free ride
all legal i am licensed
and it would be a great time!!!!!!!

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Deal. Let me know when you are going next; my mother is a doctor and has done plenty of aid work (she's in Uganda right now, and was in India after the Tsunami). I'd love to go.

PM me, let me know when the next trip is.

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