OR Anejo #49

Whoever organized the GB should definitely be made public. While he didn't purposely sell anyone fakes, he was the organizer and everyone put their trust in him that they would receive the real deal. If this person doesn't make good on the cigars because his name was made public, then he doesn't belong at CP. We're not going to skirt around this, make it known who the host was, the host needs to resolve the issue, and we can move on.

This is EXACTLY why some of you guys need to limit your damn sales. Too much buying/selling across the board.

Rod said:

Whoever organized the GB should definitely be made public. While he didn't purposely sell anyone fakes, he was the organizer and everyone put their trust in him that they would receive the real deal. If this person doesn't make good on the cigars because his name was made public, then he doesn't belong at CP. We're not going to skirt around this, make it known who the host was, the host needs to resolve the issue, and we can move on.

This is EXACTLY why some of you guys need to limit your damn sales. Too much buying/selling across the board.

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Rod, the host was Ed. The other participants were me, Greg, Robbie and Jake. I am not certain if Jim (stepthirteen) was a party, but I believe he was.

Lee

Edit: Also, Ed has already agreed to make good on the sale with regard to all parties involved and has recovered a portion of the money already.

miamipadronsmoker said:

You are right 100%. I am willing to deal with the consequences. I have dealt with them already as everyone knows. Hopefully after this I can learn. [snip] I don't know. I am just asking you guys. I am learning.

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Rod said:

Whoever organized the GB should definitely be made public. While he didn't purposely sell anyone fakes, he was the organizer and everyone put their trust in him that they would receive the real deal. If this person doesn't make good on the cigars because his name was made public, then he doesn't belong at CP. We're not going to skirt around this, make it known who the host was, the host needs to resolve the issue, and we can move on.

This is EXACTLY why some of you guys need to limit your damn sales. Too much buying/selling across the board.

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In light of this, does this comment still stand then Robbie?

miamipadronsmoker said:

None to you. Roll your eyes all you like but it's not your money is it?

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miamipadronsmoker said:

None to you. Roll your eyes all you like but it's not your money is it?

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BigJake6904 said:

The community isn't involved.

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BigJake6904 said:

As for the host and participants, that's really not important right now.

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....my god, you guys. It's as if nothing has been learned, nor listened to.

No one is out to rub salt into the wound. And, BigJake, you're as wrong as can be; the community IS most certainly involved. We're doing what a community does, and that's attempting to protect the community.

I understand you guys wanting to do everything possible to recover your losses, but pretending it didn't happen won't make things better. If there was ever a time to tell the truth and let the facts be known, it's now.

If you guys refuse to learn from your mistakes at least give the membership the opportunity.

As some of you have probably guessed, I was the one who organized the group buy. I am working to get this whole and one way or another it will be made public.

dulaney22 said:

Rod said:

Whoever organized the GB should definitely be made public. While he didn't purposely sell anyone fakes, he was the organizer and everyone put their trust in him that they would receive the real deal. If this person doesn't make good on the cigars because his name was made public, then he doesn't belong at CP. We're not going to skirt around this, make it known who the host was, the host needs to resolve the issue, and we can move on.

This is EXACTLY why some of you guys need to limit your damn sales. Too much buying/selling across the board.

Click to expand...

Rod, the host was Ed. The other participants were me, Greg, Robbie and Jake. I am not certain if Jim (stepthirteen) was a party, but I believe he was.

Lee

Edit: Also, Ed has already agreed to make good on the sale with regard to all parties involved and has recovered a portion of the money already.

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And Ed is... ? *edit* N/M, answered one post above...

I understand you guys wanting to do everything possible to recover your losses, but pretending it didn't happen won't make things better. If there was ever a time to tell the truth and let the facts be known, it's now.

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Tom, that wasn't quite my point, nor am I pretending it didn't happen.

When other Group Buys have gone awry, it has seemingly been the practice to give a host the benefit of the doubt and afford them the time to make it right, which hasn't been done.

We've received a partial refund in less than 24 hours of this being brought to everyone's attention, everyone is cooperative and cool-headed.

tone-ny said:

I posted this in the veryphissy thread and it applicable here:

This influx of buying and selling here has polluted the cigar inventory you may have.

"I bought these from Joe. Where did Joe get them? He got them from Bob, he's a good guy. I think he buys from x and they have the best prices, but Bob really got these from Willie who gets his stuff from Tony on board x. Tony has a source and he gets some of the best stuff out there. You go from there and you end up where we are now."

In other words, I get the cigar from you, I pass it on to the next person and that person puts in a pass. More cigars are passed in this manner than most of us care to admit. If it sounds too good to be true question the source, you may get a sense of the truth somewhere.

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A good point and a good reminder that one of the first obligations of passing or trading / selling is to not send along sticks of questionable origin.

Frankly, every stick I get in a purchase or trade from a BOTL or pass take gets set aside for my enjoyment. I do NOT pass nor trade nor sell sticks that came from any private parties. Ever. Nothing personal, guys, but as we have seen here and in several threads before, s#!t happens.

What do I sell or pass or trade? Only smokes that came from boxes I personally purchased. Period. Since I only purchase from known retail outlets who I and others have done business with for years, it's as safe as it can be. Even then, some of the overseas vendors have had issues and IMHO it's better to err on the side of caution, rather than accidentally let a CP brother down.

Rod and Anthony (and others) have said it over and over, and maybe now it's starting to sink in - the full throttle trading and impulse buying HTF's will burn you. While we're a solid group here, there are any number of thieves out there for whom relabeling and lying isn't a problem at all.

BigJake6904 said:

I understand you guys wanting to do everything possible to recover your losses, but pretending it didn't happen won't make things better. If there was ever a time to tell the truth and let the facts be known, it's now.

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Tom, that wasn't quite my point, nor am I pretending it didn't happen.

When other Group Buys have gone awry, it has seemingly been the practice to give a host the benefit of the doubt and afford them the time to make it right, which hasn't been done.

We've received a partial refund in less than 24 hours of this being brought to everyone's attention, everyone is cooperative and cool-headed.

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I politely disagree. No one has asked for a head on a stake, just the name of the person(s) involved. Benefit of the doubt seems intact.

I don't know all the facts but it's my understanding that the person that organized the GB isn't the source. Fair enough; we're all grown ups here and with the facts in the light of day, I'm sure things can be worked out. Knowing the source, however, is where the real value lies. I believe Moki's post covered that; if not, a heads up to the membership would be appreciated.

Make no mistake, I am genuinely sorry you guys got burned. "Told ya so" isn't all that sweet when friends are involved.

B.B.S.

dulaney22 said:

Rod said:

Whoever organized the GB should definitely be made public. While he didn't purposely sell anyone fakes, he was the organizer and everyone put their trust in him that they would receive the real deal. If this person doesn't make good on the cigars because his name was made public, then he doesn't belong at CP. We're not going to skirt around this, make it known who the host was, the host needs to resolve the issue, and we can move on.

This is EXACTLY why some of you guys need to limit your damn sales. Too much buying/selling across the board.

Click to expand...

Rod, the host was Ed. The other participants were me, Greg, Robbie and Jake. I am not certain if Jim (stepthirteen) was a party, but I believe he was.

Lee

Edit: Also, Ed has already agreed to make good on the sale with regard to all parties involved and has recovered a portion of the money already.

Click to expand...

I did not purchase any of the Anejo in question. I did however purchase some OR Opus X. The only ones that have went anywhere were smoked during the HERF at Uptown. The rest are fully accounted for in my humidor and will not be sent anywhere, but possibly back to the place they came from.

I am fully accountable for the purchase and I am prepared to take the hit for my blunder. I did not facilitate Due Diligence on this matter and that is my fault. I was under the impression they where purchased from a reliable source, not because Ed told me they were, but because some other items have and continue to be purchased from well respected CF members.

The bottom line is I made a mistake not asking more questions and I will eat the cost if that is how this all unfolds. I should have read my sig tag before I made this purchase. I got all giddy inside and my disease ran wild causing irrational actions.

Jim

SPIVY said:

As some of you have probably guessed, I was the one who organized the group buy. I am working to get this whole and one way or another it will be made public.

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Ok, nothing against you Ed, but why did it take 3 days, a post from Rod, and Dulaney specifically naming you before you had anything to say in the thread other than your post about having a PL from the '50's? That's what's bothering me at this point. It seems like you were trying to stay out of this thread knowing you were the one who had organized it. The backlash from trying to hide behind the curtain is far worse than just coming out and saying "I organized the GB".

Jake, you know I think the world of you Bro, but your posts in this thread about not needing to "out the host", quite frankly, are very disappointing... regardless of intent. Something like this is more than just a couple of guys trying to recoup their money, it's also about looking out for the rest of the community so we know what or who to look out for. If the host did nothing wrong, then what does it matter? It's the origin that we're concerned about.

Jonesy said:

SPIVY said:

As some of you have probably guessed, I was the one who organized the group buy. I am working to get this whole and one way or another it will be made public.

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Ok, nothing against you Ed, but why did it take 3 days, a post from Rod, and Dulaney specifically naming you before you had anything to say in the thread other than your post about having a PL from the '50's? That's what's bothering me at this point. It seems like you were trying to stay out of this thread knowing you were the one who had organized it. The backlash from trying to hide behind the curtain is far worse than just coming out and saying "I organized the GB".

Jake, you know I think the world of you Bro, but your posts in this thread about not needing to "out the host", quite frankly, are very disappointing... regardless of intent. Something like this is more than just a couple of guys trying to recoup their money, it's also about looking out for the rest of the community so we know what or who to look out for. If the host did nothing wrong, then what does it matter? It's the origin that we're concerned about.

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My sentiments exactly.

Jonesy said:

SPIVY said:

As some of you have probably guessed, I was the one who organized the group buy. I am working to get this whole and one way or another it will be made public.

Click to expand...

Ok, nothing against you Ed, but why did it take 3 days, a post from Rod, and Dulaney specifically naming you before you had anything to say in the thread other than your post about having a PL from the '50's? That's what's bothering me at this point. It seems like you were trying to stay out of this thread knowing you were the one who had organized it. The backlash from trying to hide behind the curtain is far worse than just coming out and saying "I organized the GB".

Jake, you know I think the world of you Bro, but your posts in this thread about not needing to "out the host", quite frankly, are very disappointing... regardless of intent. Something like this is more than just a couple of guys trying to recoup their money, it's also about looking out for the rest of the community so we know what or who to look out for. If the host did nothing wrong, then what does it matter? It's the origin that we're concerned about.

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Brian,
I was away this weekend on a much needed vacation. The last post I did was the PL post. As for not saying anything earlier today. It was a hectic day at the office in combination with this ordeal which I am trying to resolve off line. There were some doubts over the last few days, but nothing like what happened this morning. I was called at 9:30 am and then got the ball rolling. I will not hide the fact that I organized the group buy, and it is eating my insides that I caused any hardship to my friends. I have told them all that I will make it whole one way or another.

Ed

Edit to add: And I actually started to post before Lee posted about me. I stepped away from the desk before pressing submit. Pressed it when I got back.

Brothers, no one has tried to hide anything. I personally pm'd a couple of the FOGs who asked and when Rod made the request, I answered him. Ed has been nothing but gracious in handling this. I personally told him that I did not want any of my money returned, but he insists on making things right. As Jim posted, this is the fault of all of ours. I take as much blame as Ed, or any of the others involved in the purchase. We are all grown men and at fault for our lapse in judgment.

As for the posting, Ed and I posted about the same time. It was never the intention not to answer and I was not trying to beat Ed to the point. This was just my original post and I felt compelled to answer what I could. Ed has been busy all day trying to rectify this and has posted numerous emails to all of us throughout the day.

dulaney22 said:

Brothers, no one has tried to hide anything. I personally pm'd a couple of the FOGs who asked and when Rod made the request, I answered him. Ed has been nothing but gracious in handling this. I personally told him that I did not want any of my money returned, but he insists on making things right. As Jim posted, this is the fault of all of ours. I take as much blame as Ed, or any of the others involved in the purchase. We are all grown men and at fault for our lapse in judgment.

As for the posting, Ed and I posted about the same time. It was never the intention not to answer and I was not trying to beat Ed to the point. This was just my original post and I felt compelled to answer what I could. Ed has been busy all day trying to rectify this and has posted numerous emails to all of us throughout the day.

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Lee, I hope neither you nor Ed think I'm trying to make accusations because I'm not....this is just the way it appears to me (and probably others). I'm sure Ed has been great with this, but appearance and silence, people can't help but to wonder what I posted about.

Ed is a class act and having done many GB and sales with him I know he will do the right thing. After reading through the 4 pages of posts too many have gotten involved here and put in their two cents. I completely understand protecting the community and I support that, but Ed didn't know nor did he purposely do anyone wrong. He should not be facing any firing squad or criticized.

Golfanatic said:

Ed is a class act and having done many GB and sales with him I know he will do the right thing. After reading through the 4 pages of posts too many have gotten involved here and put in their two cents. I completely understand protecting the community and I support that, but Ed didn't know nor did he purposely do anyone wrong. He should not be facing any firing squad or criticized.

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Somewhere in the 4 pages you read, can you point out to me where the firing squad was lining up?

It's incredible how many people still do not get it.

Golfanatic said:

Ed is a class act and having done many GB and sales with him I know he will do the right thing. After reading through the 4 pages of posts too many have gotten involved here and put in their two cents. I completely understand protecting the community and I support that, but Ed didn't know nor did he purposely do anyone wrong. He should not be facing any firing squad or criticized.

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I know you're trying to be civil and a peacemaker, but unless you know specifically what's going on inside Ed's head "but Ed didn't know nor did he purposefully do anyone wrong", then you need to stay out of the conversation. You can't speak for Ed, so don't. I've been in gb's with Ed before and I haven't ever had a problem, but this thread is about the selling of fake cigars, whether known or not, so we don't need 100 posts about how great a person so and so is.

Enthusiasm is the word that jumps out. It seems that people are so enthusiastic to buy rare or HTF cigars, so enthusiastic to talk about their finds, so enthusiastic to get info and sources, so enthusiastic earn their stripes.

Edited to add.........The discussion about the multiple GB's Ed has handled in his short time here may be an indicator of this.

WTF...............Am I the only one that smells bullshit here? ???

Either Ed is truly a nice guy and there is a majority of us that have him pegged wrong, or he has the wool totally pulled over the eyes of you new guys that think you know better than the senior membership.
I've seen a lot of warning signs over the course of the last six months, and either Ed (Spivy) has no business doing these dealings with cigars, or he has all of you blinded making you act like a group of Lemming's ready to jump off of a cliff.

Here are a few of the things that I can bring to your attention.

First there was the Tkoepp Sale thread where Ed admittedly backed out of a commitment because something better came along and he wanted to leave Tim hanging. Sure the cigars were something that would sell anyways, but to me, it speaks ill of someones character when they would do this. It made a red flag pop up for me.

Then there was an episode in the Make-a-Wish PIF Thread.
Flushnutz came to me because he did not want to make a big deal about it, but he had questions about the "Cuban Sir Winston" Ed sent him. Upon examination of the pictures Dennis provided along with measurements, I realized he had been sent a Dominican H Uphman Churchill. The construction was not even close!
I approached Ed as Dennis did not want to. The response I got was that he mistakenly sent this cigar.
While Ed acted graciously and forwarded his next wish to Dennis as a way of making it right, it really set off the BS meter with me. How does someone who comes off as so well versed in cigars "mistakenly" that so obviously does not match up to what it was supposed to have been.
I really had a hard time with it, but let it go.


I know some sales go on behind the scenes, but does it bother anyone else that Ed's all of a sudden dropped off the radar?
Go look at the B/S/T forum. Until recently, you could not go one page without seeing his username all over the place.

Now I hear rumors from some pretty reliable sources that Ed's decided CP is too full of BS, and he's started recruiting membership from CP to conduct private sales on CP, but not on CP if you will. So, these sales gone bad affect CP, but they were not made on CP. I have a huge problem with Ed recruiting membership from here because CP sucks so bad and it's not the same. All while acting like nothing is amiss. Go click on his Sig if you like. Looks like Dulaney, and others are founding membership.
So, all of you guys rushing to his defense on that secret forum trashing CP and the senior membership, why don't you all get the hell out? If it's that bad, and Ed's so great, then what's keeping you here? We don't need you, and I think you all are two faced hypocrites in the worst kind of way.

You all are quick to act like teen age asses who think mom and dad (senior members) don't know shit, and you know it all. As soon as you get burned though, you want to go crying to Rod that so and so screwed you over though, huh!

Oh! Once again, maybe, just maybe Ed did not realize that something was amiss with these OR Anejo before he sent them, but if that is the case, he should not even be conducting these sales. Hell, I could tell just from pictures and I'm no expert.

jfields said:

Now I hear rumors from some pretty reliable sources that Ed's decided CP is too full of BS, and he's started recruiting membership from CP to conduct private sales on CP, but not on CP if you will. So, these sales gone bad affect CP, but they were not made on CP. I have a huge problem with Ed recruiting membership from here because CP sucks so bad and it's not the same. All while acting like nothing is amiss. Go click on his Sig if you like. Looks like Dulaney, and others are founding membership.
So, all of you guys rushing to his defense on that secret forum trashing CP and the senior membership, why don't you all get the hell out? If it's that bad, and Ed's so great, then what's keeping you here? We don't need you, and I think you all are two faced hypocrites in the worst kind of way.

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Jfields, I don't know you, but I do know that you are assuming way too much. The fact that some of us friends talk on Ed's blog is in no way indicative of what you are asserting. It is no different than the chat crew on mibbet. This GB was not organized on that board. It was organized by email. I have never made one derogatory comment about CP. I am also not running to anyone here.

Lee