CP's "Cigar 101" Newbie Pass 4

Kingantz said:

Does anyone have any thoughts on the Padron/Opus trade? Does the limited availability of the Opus bump it up to meet the price of the Padron?

Easy question, isn't it? :laugh:

Click to expand...

I dont think the rarity factor increases it enough to cover. I think if you look at the MMM Anejo/Opus reference you'll see the Super Beli comes in at $12 and the 26 #2 comes in at $15.99 (from the other MMM Padron reference).

Andy, I think that you offered some other Opus' earlier. I think that maybe the Perf X#2 would be a closer match ($14 + slight rarity for $16 + no rarity for the Padron).


That was a total guess on my part. am I even close here Greg..>>???

Art

mrrt said:

Kingantz said:

Does anyone have any thoughts on the Padron/Opus trade? Does the limited availability of the Opus bump it up to meet the price of the Padron?

Easy question, isn't it? :laugh:

Click to expand...

I dont think the rarity factor increases it enough to cover. I think if you look at the MMM Anejo/Opus reference you'll see the Super Beli comes in at $12 and the 26 #2 comes in at $15.99 (from the other MMM Padron reference).

Andy, I think that you offered some other Opus' earlier. I think that maybe the Perf X#2 would be a closer match ($14 + slight rarity for $16 + no rarity for the Padron).


That was a total guess on my part. am I even close here Greg..>>???

Art

Click to expand...

Very good stuff there Art! I have to agree that a $4 difference doesn't work even though the Opus has some rarity value. I could see a dollar difference, maybe two. As mentioned, the Perfx No. 2 or DC would work.

Andy - where'd the $13.95 come from on the Super Beli? On the Ashton, you can go to Cigarcyclopedia and get the price for the No. 2 there. Please keep in mind we're not looking strictly at retail price per box. Cyclopedia lists the lowest price per box found at each vendor. This is what we are using, not the retail price like that at The Cigar Store. I'm hoping that helps with the confusion?

This is a very interesting lesson on determining fair T/P's. It makes you realize how little you actually know. I'm starting to get nervous for the scrutiny when the pass eventually makes it's way here. :whistling:

Kingantz said:

mrrt said:

Kingantz said:

Does anyone have any thoughts on the Padron/Opus trade? Does the limited availability of the Opus bump it up to meet the price of the Padron?

Easy question, isn't it? :laugh:

Click to expand...

I dont think the rarity factor increases it enough to cover. I think if you look at the MMM Anejo/Opus reference you'll see the Super Beli comes in at $12 and the 26 #2 comes in at $15.99 (from the other MMM Padron reference).

Andy, I think that you offered some other Opus' earlier. I think that maybe the Perf X#2 would be a closer match ($14 + slight rarity for $16 + no rarity for the Padron).


That was a total guess on my part. am I even close here Greg..>>???

Art

Click to expand...

Very good stuff there Art! I have to agree that a $4 difference doesn't work even though the Opus has some rarity value. I could see a dollar difference, maybe two. As mentioned, the Perfx No. 2 or DC would work.

Andy - where'd the $13.95 come from on the Super Beli? On the Ashton, you can go to Cigarcyclopedia and get the price for the No. 2 there. Please keep in mind we're not looking strictly at retail price per box. Cyclopedia lists the lowest price per box found at each vendor. This is what we are using, not the retail price like that at The Cigar Store. I'm hoping that helps with the confusion?

Click to expand...

Old Virginia Tobacco sells Opus for true MSRP by thier contract with Fuente. Taht is where it came from. Actually is $13.50. #2 or DC will work as well. Doesn't matter to me.

Holy crap, brothers relax a bit on the penny for penny math (this ain't a group buy :laugh: ), have a drink, and watch some football!

A couple pointers for some of the brothers down the road in this pass from someone that doesn't have a horse in this race:

1) Rarity has the potential to (not definitely) make up for a little bit of cost, but it's at the host's discretion. Greg is pretty knowledgable and won't lead you astray.
2) Dollar for dollar is a touchy subject because true market cost varies from vendor to vendor and MSRP on some cigars is heavily exaggerated by certain manufacturers. It's no secret which ones.
3) For the upper-mid and upper echelon of cigars, MSRP almost always holds true. Higher end and "rare" sticks usually aren't available for much less (if any less) than MSRP, except for random sales.
4) Visit a few sites, get some rough estimates on prices - use Yahoo Shopping, PriceGrabber, Google Shopping or visit Holts, CI, SeriousCigars, etc to get a rough idea of what the sticks run.
5) Passes are supposed to be fun, racking your brain too much and getting apprehensive will detract from the point of the pass - get dem feet wet, son!

jlada said:

Holy crap, brothers relax a bit on the penny for penny math (this ain't a group buy :laugh: ), have a drink, and watch some football!

A couple pointers for some of the brothers down the road in this pass from someone that doesn't have a horse in this race:

1) Rarity has the potential to (not definitely) make up for a little bit of cost, but it's at the host's discretion. Greg is pretty knowledgable and won't lead you astray.
2) Dollar for dollar is a touchy subject because true market cost varies from vendor to vendor and MSRP on some cigars is heavily exaggerated by certain manufacturers. It's no secret which ones.
3) For the upper-mid and upper echelon of cigars, MSRP almost always holds true. Higher end and "rare" sticks usually aren't available for much less (if any less) than MSRP, except for random sales.
4) Visit a few sites, get some rough estimates on prices - use Yahoo Shopping, PriceGrabber, Google Shopping or visit Holts, CI, SeriousCigars, etc to get a rough idea of what the sticks run.
5) Passes are supposed to be fun, racking your brain too much and getting apprehensive will detract from the point of the pass - get dem feet wet, son!

Click to expand...

My BRiaN HurTz.....

But damn Andy your doing good :thumbs: :thumbs:

one thing I figured out so far is that I also know a hell of alot less than I thought...ahahahaha

Art

**edit for spellcheck

CigarMan Andy said:

Old Virginia Tobacco sells Opus for true MSRP by thier contract with Fuente. Taht is where it came from. Actually is $13.50. #2 or DC will work as well. Doesn't matter to me.

Click to expand...

Is that right? That's actually where I get a good many of my Opus, OVTC. Good folks there. So what's your final T/P's?

Kingantz said:

CigarMan Andy said:

Old Virginia Tobacco sells Opus for true MSRP by thier contract with Fuente. Taht is where it came from. Actually is $13.50. #2 or DC will work as well. Doesn't matter to me.

Click to expand...

Is that right? That's actually where I get a good many of my Opus, OVTC. Good folks there. So what's your final T/P's?

Click to expand...

1) Take - Diamond Crown Maximus Pyramid #3 MSRP $18.50
2) Take - Don Pepin Black Lancero MSRP $9.99
3) Take - Padron 1926 No.2 MSRP $15.95

1) Put - Backwoods MSRP $.95
2) Put - Hav a Tampa Jewel MSRP $1.25
3) Put - Philly Blunt Grape MSRP $.89 but no rarity











LOL

1) Take - Diamond Crown Maximus Pyramid #3 MSRP $18.50
2) Take - Don Pepin Black Lancero MSRP $9.99
3) Take - Padron 1926 No.2 MSRP $15.95

1) Put - Diamond Crown Maduro Torpedo #7 MSRP $18.95
2) Put - Ashton Cabinet #2 MSRP $13.95
3) Put - Opus X Double Corona MSRP $16.95

CigarMan Andy said:

Kingantz said:

CigarMan Andy said:

Old Virginia Tobacco sells Opus for true MSRP by thier contract with Fuente. Taht is where it came from. Actually is $13.50. #2 or DC will work as well. Doesn't matter to me.

Click to expand...

Is that right? That's actually where I get a good many of my Opus, OVTC. Good folks there. So what's your final T/P's?

Click to expand...

1) Take - Diamond Crown Maximus Pyramid #3 MSRP $18.50
2) Take - Don Pepin Black Lancero MSRP $9.99
3) Take - Padron 1926 No.2 MSRP $15.95

1) Put - Backwoods MSRP $.95
2) Put - Hav a Tampa Jewel MSRP $1.25
3) Put - Philly Blunt Grape MSRP $.89 but no rarity











LOL

1) Take - Diamond Crown Maximus Pyramid #3 MSRP $18.50
2) Take - Don Pepin Black Lancero MSRP $9.99
3) Take - Padron 1926 No.2 MSRP $15.95

1) Put - Diamond Crown Maduro Torpedo #7 MSRP $18.95
2) Put - Ashton Cabinet #2 MSRP $13.95
3) Put - Opus X Double Corona MSRP $16.95

Click to expand...

All are....APPROVED!!! Woo hoo!!

Aight...who's next?!? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

That was fun! :laugh:

I'm thinking by the time it gets to Texas, I'll have at least a shot at knowin' what I'm doing! :whistling:

~Boar

That be me. Would you guys rather wait till the box is in my hand or do my puts and takes Now (tomorrow)?

Let me know

David

As Clay Davis would say: "Shiiiiit" The way you Steeler fans think you're the shit, you better start picking now so we can critique the hell out of you. :sign: :sign: :sign:

Sweetrice80 said:

That be me. Would you guys rather wait till the box is in my hand or do my puts and takes Now (tomorrow)?

Let me know

David

Click to expand...

Puts/Takes normally should be addressed before you get the Pass so that the Pass doesn't get held up because of discussion. (From what I've read )

Sweetrice80 said:

That be me. Would you guys rather wait till the box is in my hand or do my puts and takes Now (tomorrow)?

Let me know

David

Click to expand...

David,
If I took it you can too... Make your picks, both takes and puts. If I, and the Ravens, could take it, you can too. LOL

Wow you guys have had quite the talk while i haven't even looked on here. If its close i can live with it, But that's me, half the time its almost to much of a pain to find exact pricing matching in my humi and i just put in sticks of greater value for stuff i want to try.

T: #40 Tatuaje Havana VI Hermosos - P: #44 Perdomo Habano Gran Torpedo
T: #9 C.A.O Vision Epiphany - P: #45 Padron 64 Exclusivo Maduro
T: #22 Felipe Gregorio Power Triple R - P: #46 My Father #2 by Don Pepin Garcia
T: #27 La Riqueza No. 5 - P: #47 Tatuaje Noellas

T: #40 Tatuaje Havana VI Hermosos:
24 to a box (boxes are divided by 24):
$146.00 at Cigar Int’l: 6.083: Round down to $6.08 a stick
$145.99 at Famous Smoke Shop: 6.082: Round down to $6.08 a stick
$144.95 at Holt’s Cigars: 6.039: Round up to $6.04 a stick
$145.95 at Mike’s Cigars: 6.081: Round down to $6.08 a stick

$6.08 + $6.08 + $6.08 + $6.04/4 = 6.07: No rounding needed to $6.07 a stick


T: #9 C.A.O Vision Epiphanay:
20 to a box/humidor (boxes are divided by 20):
$238.00 at Atlantic: 11.9: No rounding needed to $11.90 a stick
$252.00 at Best Cigars: 12.6: No rounding needed to $12.60 a stick
$223.50 at Bonita: 11.175: Rounding up to $11.18 a stick
$224.00 at Cigar Int’l: 11.2: No rounding needed to $11.20 a stick
$238.00 at Holts: 11.9: No rounding needed to $ 11.90 a stick

$11.90 + $12.60 + $11.18 + $11.20 + 11.90/5 = 11.756: Rounding up to $11.76 a stick

Now, I do not know how many of you know but these sticks come in nice looking humidors. How do we put that in consideration on pricing a stick? Because there is no doubt that the humidor is a factor in the price of the box. Which would make it hard to know how much a single stick really would cost. I want to hear what you guys think, as well as Greg’s thoughts.


T: # 22 Felipe Gregorio Power Triple R:
26 to a box (boxes are divided by 26):
$280.00 at Cigar Int’l: 10.769: Round up to $10.78 a stick
$280.00 at Mike’s Cigars: 10.769: Round up to $10.78 a stick
$280.00 at Cigars.com: 10.769: Round up to $10.78 a stick
$241.00 at Phonixcigars.com: 9.269: Round up to $9.27 a stick

$10.78 + $10.78 + $10.78 + $9.27/4 = 10.402: Rounding down to $10.40 a stick

Now, Question here, I found some of these Cigars for cheaper at some sites that I never heard of. Ex: duquecigars.com at 199.89 a box and cheapercigars.com at 183.00 a box.
I eliminated those for two reasons. Reason 1, I have never heard of those two cigar sites, so I didn’t know if they were respectable as the cigars shops on the Comparison sheet and Phonixcigars.com which I dealt with before. But it was closer to the prices that the other sites on the Comparison Chart has, so I kept Phonixcigars price because it would not throw off the price of the Cigars as much as duquecigars.com and cheapercigars.com would have. Is this a correct way to go about a situation like this? Let me know.


T: #27 La Riqueza No. 5:
25 to a box (boxes are divided by 25)
$163.25 at Cigar Int’l: 6.53: No Rounding needed to $6.53 a stick
$162.99 at Famous Smokes: 6.519: Rounding up to $6.52 a stick
$162.95 at Holts: 6.518: Rounding up to $6.52 a stick
$163.15 at Silo Cigars: 6.526: Rounding up to $6.53 a stick

$6.53 + $6.52 + $6.52 + $6.53/4 = 6.525: Rounding up to $6.53 a stick

________________________________________________________________________

P: #44 Perdomo Habano Gran Torpedo:
20 to a box (boxes are divided by 20)
$134.95 at Best Cigars: 6.747: Rounding up to $6.75 a stick
$133.95 at Bonita: 6.697: Rounding up to $6.70 a stick
$134.95 at Cigar Int’l: 6.747: Rounding up to $6.75
$134.95 at Famous: 6.747: Rounding up to $6.75

$6.75 + $6.70 + $6.75 + $6.75/4 = 6.737: Rounding up to $6.74 a stick


P: #45 Padron 64 Exclusivo Maduro:
25 to a box (boxes are divided by 25)
$255.00 at CP Padron Reference page: 10.2: No rounding needed at $10.20 a stick
$255.00 at Atlantic: 10.2: No rounding needed at $10.20 a stick
$254.00 at Bonita: 10.196: Rounding up to $10.20 a stick
$254.99 at Famous: 10.199: Rounding up to $10.20 a stick

No brainier on the math, all comes out to $10.20 a stick

P: #46 My Father #2 by Don Pepin Garcia:
23 to a box (boxes are divided by 23)
$220.95 at Best Cigars: 9.606: Rounding up to $9.61 a stick
$233.95 at Cigar Int’l: 10.171: Rounding down to $10.17 a stick
$233.95 at Holts: 10.171: Rounding down to $10.17 a stick
$240.00 at Silo Cigars: 10.435: Rounding up to $10.44 a stick

$9.61 + $10.17 + $10.17 + $10.44/4 = 10.0975: Rounding up to $10.10 a stick


P: #47 Tatuaje Noellas
25 to a box (boxes are divided by 25)
$169.75 at Abner’s: 6.79: No rounding needed at $6.79 a stick
$180.00 at Cigar Int’l: 7.2: No rounding needed at $7.20 a stick
$179.99 at Famous: 7.199: Rounding up to $7.20 a stick
$179.95 at Holts: 7.197: Rounding up to $7.20 a stick
$158.95 at Mike’s: 6.358: Rounding up to $6.36 a stick

$6.79 + $7.20 + $7.20 + $7.20 + $6.36/5 = 6.95: No rounding needed at $6.95 a stick

Final run down
T: #40 Tatuaje Havana VI Hermosos: $6.07
T: #9 C.A.O Vision Epiphany: $11.76
T: # 22 Felipe Gregorio Power Triple R: $10.40
T: #27 La Riqueza No. 5: $6.53

P: #44 Perdomo Habano Gran Torpedo: $6.74 plus $0.67
P: #45 Padron 64 Exclusivo Maduro: $10.20 minus $1.56
P: #46 My Father #2 by Don Pepin Garcia: $10.10 minus $0.30
P: #47 Tatuaje Noellas: $6.95 plus $0.42

Final assessment, I know some of you may think that the C.A.O vs. the Padron may not be fair as far as price. Lets say the Humidor is at minimum $20.00 that brings each stick down to $10.76 which makes it a difference of $0.56. That Padron is also aged about one year, not that it matters at all, but I am putting out all the information for Greg.

Let me know what you guys think.

David

I'm inclined to approve the CAO/Padron trade just because I like Padrons better! :laugh:

~Boar

Sweetrice80 said:

T: #9 C.A.O Vision Epiphanay:
20 to a box/humidor (boxes are divided by 20):
$238.00 at Atlantic: 11.9: No rounding needed to $11.90 a stick
$252.00 at Best Cigars: 12.6: No rounding needed to $12.60 a stick
$223.50 at Bonita: 11.175: Rounding up to $11.18 a stick
$224.00 at Cigar Int’l: 11.2: No rounding needed to $11.20 a stick
$238.00 at Holts: 11.9: No rounding needed to $ 11.90 a stick

$11.90 + $12.60 + $11.18 + $11.20 + 11.90/5 = 11.756: Rounding up to $11.76 a stick

Now, I do not know how many of you know but these sticks come in nice looking humidors. How do we put that in consideration on pricing a stick? Because there is no doubt that the humidor is a factor in the price of the box. Which would make it hard to know how much a single stick really would cost. I want to hear what you guys think, as well as Greg’s thoughts.

Click to expand...

I don't think you can discount the fancy humidor factor unless its possible to get the cigar without the humidor for a cheaper price. So if there is research you can find that shows the single stick price that can be used of course use it but it not I think you have to go with what you have. If you think about it every stick has cost built in that has nothing to do with the cigar itself. There are marketing costs, admistration, all the hands that touch it at the factory, etc. Its just that we don't think about those costs because they are not as obvious as the overly ornate humidor. I think you'll see the same with cigars that come in wooden coffins. If you can't buy them without the coffin for a cheaper price than the price is the price. Once we start discounting for true value (without the humidor or coffin or other premium) it just gets to become too subjective. Any one of us could easily say "yeah XYZ cigar has a MSRP of $15 but everyone I have ever had has been plugged or had a tight pull. So they are really only worth $10". So at some point we have to draw a reasonable line.

SiriusBlack said:

Sweetrice80 said:

T: #9 C.A.O Vision Epiphanay:
20 to a box/humidor (boxes are divided by 20):
$238.00 at Atlantic: 11.9: No rounding needed to $11.90 a stick
$252.00 at Best Cigars: 12.6: No rounding needed to $12.60 a stick
$223.50 at Bonita: 11.175: Rounding up to $11.18 a stick
$224.00 at Cigar Int’l: 11.2: No rounding needed to $11.20 a stick
$238.00 at Holts: 11.9: No rounding needed to $ 11.90 a stick

$11.90 + $12.60 + $11.18 + $11.20 + 11.90/5 = 11.756: Rounding up to $11.76 a stick

Now, I do not know how many of you know but these sticks come in nice looking humidors. How do we put that in consideration on pricing a stick? Because there is no doubt that the humidor is a factor in the price of the box. Which would make it hard to know how much a single stick really would cost. I want to hear what you guys think, as well as Greg’s thoughts.

Click to expand...

I don't think you can discount the fancy humidor factor unless its possible to get the cigar without the humidor for a cheaper price. So if there is research you can find that shows the single stick price that can be used of course use it but it not I think you have to go with what you have. If you think about it every stick has cost built in that has nothing to do with the cigar itself. There are marketing costs, admistration, all the hands that touch it at the factory, etc. Its just that we don't think about those costs because they are not as obvious as the overly ornate humidor. I think you'll see the same with cigars that come in wooden coffins. If you can't buy them without the coffin for a cheaper price than the price is the price. Once we start discounting for true value (without the humidor or coffin or other premium) it just gets to become too subjective. Any one of us could easily say "yeah XYZ cigar has a MSRP of $15 but everyone I have ever had has been plugged or had a tight pull. So they are really only worth $10". So at some point we have to draw a reasonable line.

Click to expand...

I agree with you, however when we have GB here on Cp and someone wants humidor, we almost always have a drawing to who would win, and if they would of won how much extra they would pay. Take a look at the Opus 22 set group buys. I am just saying that a humidor, isnt like a box or an coffin which is the general way cigar company package their cigars. However, If you do a simple google C.A.O vision I can find cheaper prices than the one listed on the cigar comparison. I did not place those because Some may have never heard of the vendor. Also if you look C.A.O price varies among vendors. Padron, Their prices among venders are pretty consist on their prices.

I took this challenge too sort of bring it to our attention because when Greg posted the cigar list, that was a question that struck me right a way on the C.A.O that they come in humidors. I just used my experience here on CP to determine what others have done in the past with cigars coming in humidors. Again, in my short experience here, I almost always see that the humidor is a factor.

David