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Star in a Reasonably Priced Car Pass

Gonz said:
Here's my proposed puts and takes, this way they'll be approved and once the box shows up I can swap cigars and get it right back on the road.

Take: #9 CX2 Put: #45 CAO 65th Tonton
Take: #15 DPG Blue Put: #46 RP Old World Reserve
Take: #29 Padilla Achilles Put: #47 Avo LE08
Take: #31 Padron 2000 Put: #48 RP Edge
Take: #36 RP 1992 Put: #49 Fuente Hemingway Best Seller Nat.
Click to expand...


OK, let's see. First off, I used Cigars International on many of these, since they have a very large selection of cigars in this price range, so I'm able to find the put and the take I'm considering here, therefor there's no discrepancy between different retailer's pricing. Otherwise often I'll use Holt's or Famous. I use the reference threads on CP for all things Padron, Fuente and Tatuaje. And finally there's a little experience thrown on top for good measure. Also, I tend to devalue the stated msrp's on a handful of brands because they are inflated and it is widely known they are available at a deep discount. Two prime examples are Rocky Patel and Gurkha.

The first put and take were very closely matched, unfortunately in between two nights ago and today the CX2 has disappeared from CI's inventory! It's at Holts for about $$6.50. I recall it was available for about $6ish at CI, and the Tonton is available there for $68 per 10-pack. I also like the idea of replacing a CAO with another, different CAO.

The DPG Blue at CI is about $7.50ish. The Old World Reserve is a little over $10 at CI, however I know I paid much less than that. But rules are rules, and what I paid is irrelevant, and goes both ways. If I overpaid I shouldn't expect someone else to suffer as a result, however if I got a screaming deal it doesn't mean that cigar is not worth the avg. retail price. But in this case, again with most RP, I feel that cigar is widely available at discount. Put it this way for example: A WOAM msrp is $7.50ish, but a little hard to find. Strictly by the books an Old World Reserve should be an OK put for the WOAM since it's msrp is higher even though it's easier to find, but seriously folks! I feel the community as a whole doesn't hold those two cigars even close to in the same league. (ps - Holts has the OWR for $9.25 each, Serious has them for $8.50 each)

The Padilla Achilles I figured was about a $7-$8 cigar, whereas the LE08 was/is widely available right now for about $9-$10 a piece. Perhaps a little higher end than the pass is intended for however I don't think it's necessarily a super-premium that shouldn't be available to other passers if they want to replace it with a similarly priced cigar.

The Padron 2000 has an msrp of $3.50 ish, whereas the RP Edge maduro I am going to put for it is readily available for about $4.00, I think that's quite clear. A $0.50 swing up in price is well within the confines of this pass.

Finally the RP 1992 for the Best Seller. CI has had the 1992's in stock for 5/$25 for years now. I think that's a pretty fair representation of their true market value. The Best Seller has an msrp of $5.50, and that's about what it's available for anywhere I ever look.


I hope this helps, please feel free to ask any other questions!
 
Gonz said:
Gonz said:
Here's my proposed puts and takes, this way they'll be approved and once the box shows up I can swap cigars and get it right back on the road.

Take: #9 CX2 Put: #45 CAO 65th Tonton
Take: #15 DPG Blue Put: #46 RP Old World Reserve
Take: #29 Padilla Achilles Put: #47 Avo LE08
Take: #31 Padron 2000 Put: #48 RP Edge
Take: #36 RP 1992 Put: #49 Fuente Hemingway Best Seller Nat.
Click to expand...


OK, let's see. First off, I used Cigars International on many of these, since they have a very large selection of cigars in this price range, so I'm able to find the put and the take I'm considering here, therefor there's no discrepancy between different retailer's pricing. Otherwise often I'll use Holt's or Famous. I use the reference threads on CP for all things Padron, Fuente and Tatuaje. And finally there's a little experience thrown on top for good measure. Also, I tend to devalue the stated msrp's on a handful of brands because they are inflated and it is widely known they are available at a deep discount. Two prime examples are Rocky Patel and Gurkha.

The first put and take were very closely matched, unfortunately in between two nights ago and today the CX2 has disappeared from CI's inventory! It's at Holts for about $$6.50. I recall it was available for about $6ish at CI, and the Tonton is available there for $68 per 10-pack. I also like the idea of replacing a CAO with another, different CAO.

The DPG Blue at CI is about $7.50ish. The Old World Reserve is a little over $10 at CI, however I know I paid much less than that. But rules are rules, and what I paid is irrelevant, and goes both ways. If I overpaid I shouldn't expect someone else to suffer as a result, however if I got a screaming deal it doesn't mean that cigar is not worth the avg. retail price. But in this case, again with most RP, I feel that cigar is widely available at discount. Put it this way for example: A WOAM msrp is $7.50ish, but a little hard to find. Strictly by the books an Old World Reserve should be an OK put for the WOAM since it's msrp is higher even though it's easier to find, but seriously folks! I feel the community as a whole doesn't hold those two cigars even close to in the same league. (ps - Holts has the OWR for $9.25 each, Serious has them for $8.50 each)

The Padilla Achilles I figured was about a $7-$8 cigar, whereas the LE08 was/is widely available right now for about $9-$10 a piece. Perhaps a little higher end than the pass is intended for however I don't think it's necessarily a super-premium that shouldn't be available to other passers if they want to replace it with a similarly priced cigar.

The Padron 2000 has an msrp of $3.50 ish, whereas the RP Edge maduro I am going to put for it is readily available for about $4.00, I think that's quite clear. A $0.50 swing up in price is well within the confines of this pass.

Finally the RP 1992 for the Best Seller. CI has had the 1992's in stock for 5/$25 for years now. I think that's a pretty fair representation of their true market value. The Best Seller has an msrp of $5.50, and that's about what it's available for anywhere I ever look.


I hope this helps, please feel free to ask any other questions!
Click to expand...


Thanks for the education Gonz. Having only been in one other pass, I wanted to be sure I was pricing things in accordance with accepted methods.

The method I used to find the current price was to look the cigar up on cigarcyclopedia, take the average box price for all vendors listed and divide by the box quantity to get the per stick price. If the cigar was not listed, I would check several on line sources that carry it and take the average again. This method should give me the average price the cigar is currently available at.

After reading your comments, I see your method also shows relative value for a fair comparison. The only item I think is a little over valued is the Padilla Achilles that I find at around $6.00 which makes the LE08 about $3.00 more. I don’t have a problem with this since, as you say, it is not a super premium and does fall within the price range for this pass.

Please don’t take my questions as not approving your puts and takes. I just want to understand how the prices are arrived at so I can offer fair puts for my takes. I want to have a good idea of what I am doing for future, higher end passes.

One thing you used that I think is unfair to the rest of us and should be bottled or canned so you can share it is EXPERIENCE. :laugh: I guess that will come with time.
 
Boomer52 said:
Please don’t take my questions as not approving your puts and takes. I just want to understand how the prices are arrived at so I can offer fair puts for my takes. I want to have a good idea of what I am doing for future, higher end passes.

One thing you used that I think is unfair to the rest of us and should be bottled or canned so you can share it is EXPERIENCE. :laugh: I guess that will come with time.
Click to expand...


No offense taken or even considered! I plan on helping out through the pass on put/take questions. Also, one thing I try to keep in mind is not allowing my personal preferences for a cigar to have anything to do with whether or not it is an acceptable put/take. What I had said comparing the WOAM to the Olde World Reserve I think came close to personal preference, but after some thought I think it's safe to say there's many others here that would share the same sentiment.

Now I've got to just get that box in my hands! :D
 
Okay, now I know I'm too new at this. I'm confused, bewildered and more than a little overwhelmed by the task of participating. Looking forward to seeing what's in the box when it gets to me but this will definitely be the last one from what I see so far.
I know everyone is just concerned about making the take's and put's fair but I just assumed it was easier than what I've seen so far.

btw,
Yeah I speak my mind, some like it some don't, I try to be tactful, sometimes I am, sometimes I'm not.
I'm just saying the fun was kinda sucked out by the last 2 pages.
 
Bu11dog said:
Okay, now I know I'm too new at this. I'm confused, bewildered and more than a little overwhelmed by the task of participating. Looking forward to seeing what's in the box when it gets to me but this will definitely be the last one from what I see so far.
I know everyone is just concerned about making the take's and put's fair but I just assumed it was easier than what I've seen so far.

btw,
Yeah I speak my mind, some like it some don't, I try to be tactful, sometimes I am, sometimes I'm not.
I'm just saying the fun was kinda sucked out by the last 2 pages.
Click to expand...

My puts and takes were purposefully made into a production to show everyone what kind of thought process goes on behind the scenes. Puts and takes don't need to be rocket science. All it boils down to is you pick a cigar in the pass that you like, you take it out and you replace it with one of roughly equal value. Some people tend to err on the side of going overboard, but that it not required nor encouraged. I personally just like to go by the rule of leaving the pass in better shape than I found it. Whether that pertains to your puts and takes or in the care you take with the inventory, or checking the humidification or condition of the box.
 
Bu11dog said:
Okay, now I know I'm too new at this. I'm confused, bewildered and more than a little overwhelmed by the task of participating. Looking forward to seeing what's in the box when it gets to me but this will definitely be the last one from what I see so far.
I know everyone is just concerned about making the take's and put's fair but I just assumed it was easier than what I've seen so far.

btw,
Yeah I speak my mind, some like it some don't, I try to be tactful, sometimes I am, sometimes I'm not.
I'm just saying the fun was kinda sucked out by the last 2 pages.
Click to expand...

It happens in almost every pass. I don't look at it as sucking the fun out at all though. It's just that some people, especially in passes with a lot of new passers in it, want to be sure about the right thing to do. And if you have a question about the value for value you should ask about it and we'll discuss it. Sometimes it does get overboard but I didn't see this in any way mean spirited or dramatic, just clarification. I know I learned a couple things by Gonz' posts.

See, everybody's happy :) I'm personally very excited for this pass to get back to me but location-wise I understand why I'm last :( But I won't bring up generous puts anymore as it just means more deliciousness to choose from when it gets to me haha. :rolleyes: :laugh:
 
If it's easier for everyone, I'd be glad to start a pricing spreadsheet up - it'll give you a head start on establishing the right value on p/t's and make for less bother all around. But remember the theme - put sticks that you personally like, take sticks you think you will like.
 
Bu11dog said:
Okay, now I know I'm too new at this. I'm confused, bewildered and more than a little overwhelmed by the task of participating. Looking forward to seeing what's in the box when it gets to me but this will definitely be the last one from what I see so far.
I know everyone is just concerned about making the take's and put's fair but I just assumed it was easier than what I've seen so far.

btw,
Yeah I speak my mind, some like it some don't, I try to be tactful, sometimes I am, sometimes I'm not.
I'm just saying the fun was kinda sucked out by the last 2 pages.
Click to expand...

Sorry if I made it look complex. Finding the going price and then trying to match up what I have for cigars I want to try is half the fun for me. Guess I'm a little anal about that. Plus I was looking for some clarification. Gonz however takes a little different approach than I do. His methods, if you put his experience aside, are simpler than mine and he arrives at pretty much the same results.

Stick with it. I think you will find a lot of the fun in a pass is the bantering between the participants.

Again, if I came on a little strong, I apologize. Didn't mean to overwhelm or offend anyone.
 
It can go either way - I'm hoping that it can be fairly relaxed rather than angsty.

This is a chance to enjoy new cigars, and the reason this pass has a very large starting set of sticks is to reduce price ratcheting as sticks get taken and retaken. We have 17 participants in the pass and 44 sticks, so if everyone took the bare minimum it would reach no. 12 before someone had to take a non-original stick.

(I do have a spreadsheet which does an auto-calculation of "trade value" by averaging box prices, but an approximation using round figures and experience - like Gonz did - is fine, too. What can I say, I'm a market research geek).

According to the USPS, we had touchdown in Minnesota today and a notice was left in Gonz's box - if it's not there, let me know!
 
I've got the pass and it will be heading back out on the road tomorrow. I haven't had a chance yet to go through everything, been a busy weekend.

Seanholio, are you ready? :thumbs:
 
Gonz said:
Here's my proposed puts and takes, this way they'll be approved and once the box shows up I can swap cigars and get it right back on the road.

Take: #9 CX2 Put: #45 CAO 65th Tonton
Take: #15 DPG Blue Put: #46 RP Old World Reserve
Take: #29 Padilla Achilles Put: #47 Avo LE08
Take: #31 Padron 2000 Put: #48 RP Edge
Take: #36 RP 1992 Put: #49 Fuente Hemingway Best Seller Nat.
Click to expand...
I think these P/T's are pretty suspect in my opinion. Marco, did you give it any thought when you asked this guy to join your pass? :sign:


:laugh:
 
Jonesy said:
I think these P/T's are pretty suspect in my opinion. Marco, did you give it any thought when you asked this guy to join your pass?
Click to expand...

*grin* none of these fine sticks are going to make it back to PA, I'm sure. But Gonz is a shifty character all around. I should have known, I should have known ...
 
The pass is in great shape, I've swapped cigars and this is heading out today.

Regarding the cigars I've put:

The CAO I've only smoked a few of, and I enjoyed it enough to want to pass it along
Rocky Patel Vintage '90 and '92 used to be one of my favorite everyday cigars (not that I don't enjoy them anymore, but I have others now too). Since I enjoyed the Vintage I often like to have an Edge and when I want something a little nicer but from the same family I'll have one of the OWR's.
The Avo LE's are some of my favorite all-around cigars, whether it's the 75th or the new LE08's. One thing about the Avo LE's is that they always tend to get much better after the first year or two, and by that point they're not available and I always kick myself for not getting more!
And the Fuente Hemingway line of cigars, what can I say, they're great! And with the MN winter upon us a nice short cigar like a Best Seller or Short Story is all I can handle!
 
Hi Guys - list is updated. Sorry about my absence from CP - I've been on the road since Monday and going mostly nuts with work. You all have my personal email and phone no. if there's an urgent matter, but I'm going to make a better effort to check in (at least) daily - call it a personal SLA.
 
Gonz said:
And it's off!

0103 8555 7495 7965 9132
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That arrived quickly! I didn't even have time to research my P/T's. I'll be working on those, and it might take me a couple of days to turn this around.
 
Just a little maintenance note - I've linked Gonz's review of his puts to the front page, and will continue to do this for each successive participant who lists "tasting notes". As you smoke them, look back and see what the original box-passer thought.
 
Marco-Polo said:
Just a little maintenance note - I've linked Gonz's review of his puts to the front page, and will continue to do this for each successive participant who lists "tasting notes". As you smoke them, look back and see what the original box-passer thought.
Click to expand...


Great idea. I like this, being able to have a little write up as to why a person likes certain cigars or why he/she put or took them. Nice!
 
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