• Hi Guest - Come check out all of the new CP Merch Shop! Now you can support CigarPass buy purchasing hats, apparel, and more...
    Click here to visit! here...

I don't know what's going on lately...

indyrob said:
As far as appreciating anything that's put into the threads here as well as the others, it is freedom of speech. I do value the right to say what I want, when I want and how I want.
[snapback]257921[/snapback]​
Click to expand...

This is tangental to the thread, but what you've stated is actually a common misconception. The freedom of speech that is granted to you via the Constitution concerns the ability of the US government to abridge your freedom of speech... and even on that, there are limits (no yelling "fire" in a crowded theatre, etc).

Fo privately owned forums like this one, the only freedom of speech that you have is what the board staff grants you. Rod could perfectly legally censor your speech in any way he saw fit (as long as he didn't break any laws in doing so).
 
I don't have the time or desire to get into everything that has been addressed in this thread, however, I'd like an explanation for this comment....

QUOTE
Fuggin corrupt police policing the threads...fuggin 'tarded

WTF are you implying here, Indy?!?! :angry: You've asked what you should apologize for and I, for one, know you should apologize for this comment!!! Until I see that, I have no time for you. :angry:

Floyd T.
 
moki said:
indyrob said:
As far as appreciating anything that's put into the threads here as well as the others, it is freedom of speech. I do value the right to say what I want, when I want and how I want.
[snapback]257921[/snapback]​
Click to expand...

This is tangental to the thread, but what you've stated is actually a common misconception. The freedom of speech that is granted to you via the Constitution concerns the ability of the US government to abridge your freedom of speech... and even on that, there are limits (no yelling "fire" in a crowded theatre, etc).

Fo privately owned forums like this one, the only freedom of speech that you have is what the board staff grants you. Rod could perfectly legally censor your speech in any way he saw fit (as long as he didn't break any laws in doing so).
[snapback]257969[/snapback]​
Click to expand...

THANK YOU moki! I was going to say something, but it probably wasn't going to be as civil or eloquent ;) It drive me nuts when simpletons try to use the First Amendment as a shield for their own stupidity when it's clear they have no idea what it even means in the first place.
 
I like how indyrob said "he was done" 3 times on the 19th yet continues to be here and sully the waters. You love your rights so much, how about you plead the fifth, permanently.
 
Alternate viewpoints are a requirement for the free exchange of ideas and they provide growth by stimulating thoughts outside one’s norm. That is not to say that everything that is posted should have been nor should posts be accepted blindly. Valid posts will bring forth valid discussion of the points involved, as they should.

We all can find something in anyone’s past that was not to our own liking but is posting it again relevant to the discussion at hand? If so fine, if not you are contributing to the degradation of the discussion and only fanning a game of “sez you.”

While reputation and respect is an intangible that is given by the membership here it does not mean the poster is infallible so questioning should be taken as an opportunity to educate. When education doesn’t work over a period of time, it is then that it may be best to have a parting from our community. After all, a community travels down a road together. The road can be very wide but it does have limits and the gutters are there for a reason.

Just something I’ve been thinking about YMMV.
 
moki said:
indyrob said:
As far as appreciating anything that's put into the threads here as well as the others, it is freedom of speech. I do value the right to say what I want, when I want and how I want.
[snapback]257921[/snapback]​
Click to expand...

This is tangental to the thread, but what you've stated is actually a common misconception. The freedom of speech that is granted to you via the Constitution concerns the ability of the US government to abridge your freedom of speech... and even on that, there are limits (no yelling "fire" in a crowded theatre, etc).

Fo privately owned forums like this one, the only freedom of speech that you have is what the board staff grants you. Rod could perfectly legally censor your speech in any way he saw fit (as long as he didn't break any laws in doing so).
[snapback]257969[/snapback]​
Click to expand...


:thumbs: Well said Andrew.

Indyrob - you are digging a hole for yourself deeper than you realize. You may not like the way things are run here, you may not like the way the FOGs do things but you aren't going to change things. Period. Trust me, I know.

I got into it with CC about this very thing and I was wrong to do that publicly. I should have voiced my concerns through PM. Instead, I went about it the wrong way (publicly) - just as you are now.

George is right about this and you are out on a limb here and the branch is about to break. You have insulted the integrity of the people who have made (and continue to make) CP what it is.

Think about this:

Isn't it nice there aren't people here scamming other members? Thank the FOGs.

Isn't it nice retailers don't get away with gouging members here? Thank the FOGs.

Isn't it great to have a Newbie Sampler Trade? Thank the FOGs.

Isn't it great that people who are just here to flame and insult our members are run off the board? Thank the FOGs.

Well, you should get the idea. Don't put yourself into the last group. ;) You may not agree with the FOGs 100% of the time but you have to realize they have a reason for doing what they do - and that is to keep CP the best community out there.
 
indyrob said:
I agree with George, even if he considers me one of the asshats, I don't.

I have enjoyed George's ability to debate quite a bit, but never really considered my stance as an asshat, but as a minority. I do agree that there is a certain element here lately that is taking the board by storm and turning it into the 3rd grade blacktop. I don't enjoy that so much as what used to be a chance to openly debate an issue with regards to respecting the integrity of the board. There has been an outing of sorts and I think that the FOG's have been caught up in it as well. I have. Everybody has. I've been lurking lately and posting in relevant threads and staying away from the hotspots but George has hit the nail on the head.


I'm not sure if he remembers anything before the Vintage Group Buy episode, but we have had good debates before...but it's been spoiled by the current tide of crapola in the threads lately.

-Rob
[snapback]257856[/snapback]​
Click to expand...

To me this is the cause of a certain kind of problem. If you are here to debate then we get what we have---newbies, whether young or old, looking to needle someone into a response.

This is not a debate forum. It is a cigar forum. It is for the exhange of information, the enjoyment of the good life, and the chance to share that with others.

The love of conflict that you bring to this board is not welcome.

Plus I don't think you "get it" enough as far as the English language is concerned to be interesting as a debater on a forum dedicated to that kind of activity.

Do you remember how you responded on my 666 contest thread? You were ready to dump on people right away and couldn't even get the fact that it was a roasting brought on by that evil number.

Improving attitude is important. Can it be done? I always hope so, as my faith in my fellow man is a boundless resevoir. But I don't know if there is a cure for stupid. Silence is the best treatment barring a cure.
 
Hudsonvalley, you are completely right.
This IS a cigar forum. That is what drew me to this forum and that is what keeps me here.
This is a GREAT place to discuss cigars and meet other folks of the same mind.
There are few places in the real world where cigar smokers can meet and discuss their passion.
This not a debate society
 
All I can say is this and take it for what its worth. When you are playing in someone elses sand box, respect the written and unwritten rules.

Have a nice day. :)
 
AVB said:
Alternate viewpoints are a requirement for the free exchange of ideas and they provide growth by stimulating thoughts outside one’s norm. That is not to say that everything that is posted should have been nor should posts be accepted blindly. Valid posts will bring forth valid discussion of the points involved, as they should.

We all can find something in anyone’s past that was not to our own liking but is posting it again relevant to the discussion at hand? If so fine, if not you are contributing to the degradation of the discussion and only fanning a game of “sez you.”

While reputation and respect is an intangible that is given by the membership here it does not mean the poster is infallible so questioning should be taken as an opportunity to educate. When education doesn’t work over a period of time, it is then that it may be best to have a parting from our community. After all, a community travels down a road together. The road can be very wide but it does have limits and the gutters are there for a reason.

Just something I’ve been thinking about YMMV.
[snapback]258004[/snapback]​
Click to expand...

Well considered and well said AVB.

I would also add that communication could be considered a process of negotiation. This is one of the mechanisms through which group and individual norms are examined and found compatible or antithetical. Any process of negotiation presupposes good faith and honesty as precondtions. It seems to be these two conditions that are missing from many of the voicings of recent "dissenters."

I, and many of the newcomers I've become friends with, especially appreciate the FOGs with whom we've had the good fortune to personally engage with. I guess I'm saying that for some of us new guys, having a mentor there to ask questions of and bounce ideas off has been invaluable in shaping our positive experience here. It's no fun being a "lone wolf" and in fact, there's no place for that here as far as I can tell.

The guys like CC, gg and others are like the shock troops, first in, last out. They do the necessary work so that the vast majority of us who go about the scenes quietly building bonds and practicing the values of this community can do our work. And that work is establishing and maintaining the community one friendship at a time. It makes no sense to think about this community as one without the other.

Let my final comment be this: Even though we are silent on many matters of controversy, should the need arise, you can rest assured we would answer the call. Why? Because we have come to care about the people and relationships we've developed here and because we feel this is a place of great value.

Wilkey
 
I must still not "get it". These debates seem to just go on endlessly with no real solution possible. In point of fact, my biggest issue with it is that a solution really isn't the goal, "solution" is avoided like the plague. If we ever drew up a solution, boredom would creep into alot of lives here. Can I go back to my espresso and MC #2 now?
 
Holy crap! This reminds me, Im on my last mc#2 anyone for a box split while I'm here?
 
I think it's time for some pictures...

Irob, you're making yourself a frontrunner for Asshat of the Year...

Good luck with that :laugh:
 
I think I must have missed some of the recent controversy w/ Wurm, Orangeman and Indyrob. And I can't say that I have much desire to find out what happened.

I would like to publicly thank all of the FOGs and some of the newer members of this board who try to contribute to CigarPass to make it a great place to share in my passion for cigars (and poker). I do appreciate the policing that goes on, and have to admit that it didn't make much sense when I first came here. It seemed that there were individuals that just got off on berating people. However, 99% of the time it is for the betterment of the CP community. And for that I thank you.

Moki, well said! AVB, I couldn't agree more, especially to your last paragraph. And since it was brought up in this thread, thanks ggiese, especially for posting that picture in the PIF pass. I for one thought that individuals PIF was weak, but the picture added credibility to my conclusions on that individual's character. It is a good thing I am not his Secret Santa.

I disagree w/ karlgriffin. I do think these things get resolved most of the time, so that we can move on as a community. Resentment is a killer; it allways hurts the one harboring the resentment way more than the individual resented. And I don't really see that going on here; just people trying to make individuals account for what they have posted.

Thanks again,
- C
 
karlgriffin said:
If we ever drew up a solution, boredom would creep into alot of lives here.
[snapback]258028[/snapback]​
Click to expand...

Am interpreting this correctly?
You believe that if there were no asshats here people would be bored?

The goal is an asshat free society. Or atleast a society with as few as possible.
 
I dunno, I think we need to keep the asshat level at the point where the entertainment value exceeds the annoyance value.

ricmac25 said:
Am I interpreting this correctly?
You believe that if there were no asshats here people would be bored?

The goal is an asshat free society. Or atleast a society with as few as possible.
[snapback]258063[/snapback]​
Click to expand...
 
Rob, why are you a member here at cigar pass? What to you hop to gain by being a member? What do you hope to contribute as a member?

If you are going to remain a contributing member, perhaps you should operate within the standards of this community. The way you act and what you say my be "protected" rights, but your membership here is not. Just because you can say something doesn't mean you should!

Many people have tried to talk to you resonably with out success. So perhaps it isn't all the FOG's that have a problem. Perhaps the problem here is you, and you are unwilling to accept that as a possibility?
 
Oh my God. Free Speech. It never fails to amaze me when some towering intellect makes some stupid inflammatory comment, gets bowled over by angry responses and then starts whining about not having the freedom to say what they believe. I mean, HELLO, that IS freedom of speech. You say stupid shit, everyone else shows you what a stupid shit you are and you start crying because you're not permitted to say what you believe. By all means say what you want but don't whine when you take a beating. We have free speech too.

NA
 
emodx said:
Rob, why are you a member here at cigar pass? What to you hop to gain by being a member? What do you hope to contribute as a member?

If you are going to remain a contributing member, perhaps you should operate within the standards of this community. The way you act and what you say my be "protected" rights, but your membership here is not. Just because you can say something doesn't mean you should!

Many people have tried to talk to you resonably with out success. So perhaps it isn't all the FOG's that have a problem. Perhaps the problem here is you, and you are unwilling to accept that as a possibility?
[snapback]258070[/snapback]​
Click to expand...


emodx sums this situation quite well.
 
orangeperson I have no intention of taking this to pm.
Here is the information you requested.

By orangeman at various points:
*
Leave it to Georgee to try and stir something up again
*
despite what a couple people on this thread have voiced VERY loudly and incessantly
*
Good - at least you understand it (that's all that matters). I'm also glad you post something that only you can understand - brilliant
*
You sure have the ignorance down to a science
*
ggiese loves to preach the CP gospel but shows nothing but disrespect along the way. He's a playground bully that won't ever stop until he's beaten his point into submission. Then after he's done that, he'll do it some more. I didn't make any comment towards ggiese until the second or third shot he took at me, then I had enough of his asinine ways and game was on. I'm not going to be intimidated by him nor anyone else through such tactics. Although he and a select few others try to throw around their chest since they've been here longer than some of us newer members, their boorish ways are tiresome and quite childish.

For you or anyone else to make such a ridiculous comment like "showing ggiese disrespect", clearly shows how impartial and blind you are. If you or ggiese want to turn this into a 20 page thread, be my guest. There have been plenty of opportunities to end this thing, but a couple guys just can't seem to let it rest (namely ggiese). I'm sure ggiese will prove my point in a few minutes by posting back to back to back posts full of insults and hypocrisy. Can't wait!
*
Here come ggiese's welcome party - I figured as much.

This last post was after I posted to the thread. It insinuates that I am there to support George and not because I believe you are wrong. Just because everybody thinks you are wrong doesn't mean they are ganging up on you, you just happen to be in the minority.
Sometimes thinking you are right about something is not rational.

NA
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top